milquetoast1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The topic of this thread though includes all "Muslim countries". As if they're all the same, as if it's even possible to identify a list of such countries, as if holiday resorts don't have different risk profiles to capital cities, etc, etc... There are probably Muslim countries where you can more safely holiday than if you choose to visit a European capital city. But frankly, the risk on your way to the airport is still greater than the risk of you being involved in a terrorist attack wherever you go (unless we start talking about visiting Helmand Province or actual war zones). You are right to put "Muslim countries" in inverted commas like it's actually a thing. Unfortunately it's the Islamic terrorists who introduced and reinforce the idea of "Muslim countries" and then there's the ideology of Ummah to layer on the poison even more. We cannot compare Islamic terrorism with the IRA. No Catholic shares the ideology of the IRA simply because they share a religion. The Ummah means that plenty of Muslims connect with other Muslims more than their neighbour simply for sharing a religion. I even see evidence of that on Sheffield Forum. It's about numbers, and unfortunately our grave situation is because there are more Muslims than we want to imagine that share an ideology of hatred towards non-Muslims or the wrong sort of Muslims. We can't avoid routine risk, we can't avoid the risk involved in driving to the airport, but we can chose between the risk of sitting on a beach in Egypt or Florida ... so like L00b it's the latter for me. It's quite simple, and no matter how virtuous it might make people feel to deny it, there is now more risk travelling to the countries that Muslim terrorists think are "Muslim countries". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenoside123 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 And yet you're prepared to argue about it again, as if something changed. ---------- Post added 23-03-2016----- It's not telling you that you aren't allowed to risk assess. It's saying that I don't think you are capable of risk assessing. If I say "you can't fly", do you think I'm giving you an instruction? My point was...who are you to tell me that I'm not capable of risk assessing?! I would have thought it was pretty clear for anyone to see that the risk of being involved in a terrorist incident whilst in a Muslim country at present time, is clearly higher than the risk of being involved in an attack within the EU. Maybe the view is somewhat obscured for you, being so high up on that horse of yours. http://thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Because that does change the question, albeit a silly question to begin with. Well including countries like Syria to me seems silly, because they are obviously dangerous and I don't think going on holiday to a muslim country is likely to realistically include countries in states of extensive war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) So why don't you prove that going to a muslim country, that is not in a state of war, is more dangerous than a european one? How about these? Tunisia The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to some areas and all but essential travel to the rest of the country. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tunisia Egypt FCO's comments on Egypt; "There is a high threat from terrorism". https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt Indonesia There is a high threat from terrorism. Terrorist groups continue to plan attacks and have the capacity and intent to carry out these attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Types of attacks have included suicide bombing and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/indonesia Morocco There is a high threat from terrorism in Morocco. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/morocco Mali The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel most of the country while advising against all but essential travel to the rest of the country. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/mali Even the paradise islands of the Maldives are considered to have a "general threat from terrorism", according to the FCO. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/maldives I could keep going but I think the point has been made. Islamic countries = terrorism. Edited March 23, 2016 by Berberis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) You are arguing an absurd, fact less argument.On the contrary, Cyclone is arguing a fact-only argument. Which is half a problem since, in real life, the question of the OP to would-be tourists calls more for a subjective answer based on an overall perception of the destination country, than for an objective answer based on dry facts and statistics. I've never met, and don't know, anyone who researches and peruses terrorist (and similar) statistics about a destination country before dropping into Thomas Cook, Thomson or launching Tripadvisor and such like. I certainly don't. Has anyone else? Doesn't mean such people don't exist of course, and some statistics about that might go some way to solve the current 'dispute'. But I daresay that they are numerically inconsequential all the same, relative to a significant majority of holiday-goers. We can't avoid routine risk, we can't avoid the risk involved in driving to the airport, but we can chose between the risk of sitting on a beach in Egypt or Florida.Directly related to the above (perception ≠ factual reality), that point has been put across a fair few times already since last year. Unsurprisingly, it gains no traction with the statisticians. But then, it's not their a55 on Sousse's beachfront, the Metrojet Airbus, Istanbul and Ankara's markets... Edited March 23, 2016 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) How about these? Tunisia The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to some areas and all but essential travel to the rest of the country. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tunisia Egypt FCO's comments on Egypt; "There is a high threat from terrorism". https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt Indonesia There is a high threat from terrorism. Terrorist groups continue to plan attacks and have the capacity and intent to carry out these attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Types of attacks have included suicide bombing and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/indonesia Morocco There is a high threat from terrorism in Morocco. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/morocco Nigeria. http://www.ndtv.com/topic/nigeria-bomb-blasts World News | Agence France-Presse | Thursday October 8, 2015 Boko Haram Suspected After 14 Killed in Northeast Nigeria Suicide Blasts At least 14 people were killed in three separate suicide bomb attacks in northeast Nigeria today, with suspicion falling on radical Islamist group Boko Haram after a string of similar strikes in recent months. World News | Agence France-Presse | Wednesday September 23, 2015 Death Toll Hits 117 After Northeast Nigeria Bombings: Reports The death toll from a series of bomb blasts blamed on Boko Haram in Maiduguri in northeastern Nigeria has risen to at least 117, hospital sources said Tuesday, more than twice the official tally. 54 People Killed in Bomb Blasts in Nigeria's Maiduguri World News | Reuters | Monday September 21, 2015 54 People Killed in Bomb Blasts in Nigeria's Maiduguri At least 54 people were killed and 90 wounded in a multiple bomb attack in the northeastern Nigerian city of Maiduguri in Borno state yesterday evening, a police spokesman said today. Death Toll Rises to 37 After Blasts in Nigerian City of Gombe World News | Reuters | Friday July 24, 2015 Death Toll Rises to 37 After Blasts in Nigerian City of Gombe The death toll from multiple bomb blasts at two bus stations in the northern Nigerian city of Gombe on Wednesday has risen to 37, with 105 others injured, a Red Cross official said on Thursday. More Than 40 Feared Dead After Bomb Blasts in Gombe, NE Nigeria World News | Agence France-Presse | Thursday July 23, 2015 More Than 40 Feared Dead After Bomb Blasts in Gombe, NE Nigeria More than 40 people were feared dead in Gombe city, northeast Nigeria, on Wednesday after a series of bomb blasts ripped through two bus stations, a rescue worker and a witness told AFP. 18 Killed in Bomb Blasts in Nigeria's Jos, Say Police World News | Agence France-Presse | Monday July 6, 2015 18 Killed in Bomb Blasts in Nigeria's Jos, Say Police At least 18 people were killed in twin bomb blasts in the central Nigerian city of Jos, police said today, after a bloody week of violence blamed on Boko Haram militants. Rescuers to Dig for Victims of Nigerian Car Bombs World News | Associated Press | Wednesday May 21, 2014 Rescuers to Dig for Victims of Nigerian Car Bombs Rescue workers will dig through rubble to search Wednesday for more victims of twin car bomb blasts that collapsed buildings in a bustling marketplace and bus station in Nigeria's central city of Jos, an emergency official said. More than 118 bodies have been recovered and dozens of wounded are in hospitals. Nigeria Hit by New Car Bomb Attack, 46 Dead World News | Agence France-Presse | Wednesday May 21, 2014 Nigeria Hit by New Car Bomb Attack, 46 Dead Twin car bombings on Tuesday killed at least 46 in central Nigeria in the latest in a series of deadly blasts that will stoke fears about security despite international help in the fight against Boko Haram Islamists. Bomb Kills at Least 16 Near Site of Abuja's Deadliest Attack World News | Agence France-Presse | Friday May 2, 2014 Bomb Kills at Least 16 Near Site of Abuja's Deadliest Attack A car bombing at a bus station on the outskirts of Nigeria's capital killed at least 16 people on Thursday, just weeks after a deadly attack hit the same spot. Newspaper offices bombed in Nigeria; 6 killed World News | Agence France-Presse | Thursday April 26, 2012 Bomb blasts targeting newspaper offices in Nigeria's capital Abuja and the northern city of Kaduna on Thursday killed at least six people in the first such attacks targeting the country's news media. Bomb blasts targeting football fans kill one in Nigeria Agence France-Presse | Monday December 12, 2011 Bomb blasts targeting football fans kill one in Nigeria Three bomb blasts, targeting bars as fans watched a Spanish football match on television, rocked the Nigerian city of Jos officials said on Sunday, with one death and 10 injuries reported. Bomb attack kills 8 in northern Nigeria's Maiduguri World News | Press Trust of India | Monday July 25, 2011 Bomb explosion in a bustling part of Maiduguri metropolis in northern Nigeria killed eight persons and injured many. Edited March 23, 2016 by foxy lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Nigeria. Nigeria is actually at war with Islamic insurgents though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 A point missed hy many, many people.Surely no one is thick enough to think that the IRA was primarily a religious organisation. I've always assumed that they miss that point deliberately when using it as "an example" and hope that no one calls them on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 An article in the indy last year named the top 10 countries that had suffered the most deaths due to terrorism, 7 of them were Muslim countries. That is 70%. It's certainly not all "Muslim countries", which as discussed is not even really a thing. But to pick one from the top of my head, how dangerous is it to go to Dubai (UAE) at the moment? I haven't argued that all countries which are predominantly Muslim are entirely safe, or that European countries are all extremely dangerous, which appears to be the strawman you're attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Nigeria is actually at war with Islamic insurgents though. Aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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