Is it safe to holiday in Muslim countries now?

[blake]

Israel's a bit like that too. Though it is often described as a Jewish state, it isn't really a Jewish state at all. It was conceived as being a state for Jews, not a Jewish state, and which is not the same thing. It's a secular state. There is no official or state religion, unlike in some countries like the UK, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, or Malaysia.

 

Egypt was well too dangerous for anybody to consider wanting to visit as a tourist even before they downed the Russian charter in Sharm in October last year, never mind now that they've appeared to down another one.

[alchresearch]

...the pilot forgot where he was supposed to land ....It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

Does this happen often? What's wrong with Egyptian airlines? Are their pilots incompetent?

[Cyclone]

Well the plane either crashed because of...

 

.. technical problems. It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

.. brought down deliberately..It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

Removing the facetious option, the other two are possible causes yes.

I'm really not sure what your point is now though, care to elaborate?

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 09:45 ----------

 

But anyone who says you are more likely to experience x in communist countries is not an idiot if the facts are there to support the statement.

 

Of course not all Muslim countries have high levels of terrorism. However, Muslim countries, on average do have higher levels of terrorism than non Muslim countries.

 

If someone had said "more likely" to and been specific about where, then I doubt this thread would have gone on for so long. But they didn't.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 09:46 ----------

 

Yes you really can that sentence represents a significant misunderstanding. You can be infinitely more secular than that by officially having no religion intwined with the state, that's what secularism means.

 

For examples look to the classic secular states, the one's founded on and in some ways because of the principle: USA and France.

 

Being officially atheist and not letting people practice religion is completely incompatible with secularism.

 

So many people these days confuse secularism with atheism, it makes me sad that you're amongst them. Secularism is much bigger and more important than atheism, and doesn't even have to include or make reference to it.

 

For example the US was set up as a secular state primarily because all the different denominations of Christians were afraid of people from the other branches of Christianity taking over and persecuting them, had nothing to do with atheism.

 

North Korea, amongst many other countries, is listed as secular since it has no official state religion. Atheism is not a religion of course.

Irrelevant anyway, it was just the most extreme example, other examples of secular states that are unpleasant exist, I listed a few already.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 09:47 ----------

 

We can also see that secular nations are without exception more successful and more peaceful for everyone regardless of any belief.

 

Would you agree with this flamingjimmy?

[blake]

Does this happen often? What's wrong with Egyptian airlines? Are their pilots incompetent?

 

Egyptair have form :

 

EgyptAir Flight 990 crash 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

 

mystery still surrounds it but with probability being suicide. Back then pre-9/11, nobody said that it was terrorism-related.

[foxy lady]

Removing the facetious option, the other two are possible causes yes.

I'm really not sure what your point is now though, care to elaborate?

 

There was no facetious option. It's just you are blind to possiblity.

 

Well the plane either crashed because of...

 

.. technical problems. It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

.. brought down deliberately..It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

...the pilot forgot where he was supposed to land ....It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier. .......The pilot forgot where he was supposed to land and landed in the sea instead. At the moment that is looking highly possible. This was after all an Egyptian carrier and presumably a Muslim crew.

 

I suppose a final possibility is the plane ran out of fuel. It is a plane operated and maintained by an Egyptian carrier.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 10:13 ----------

 

Egyptair have form :

 

EgyptAir Flight 990 crash 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

 

mystery still surrounds it but with probability being suicide. Back then pre-9/11, nobody said that it was terrorism-related.

 

Thank you. You saved me the trouble.

[milquetoast1]

Can't be much more secular than being officially atheist.

 

I think this is the most batpoo crazy statement I've read on SF.

 

In fact I can't believe you've just wrote that and think that.

 

[flamingjimmy]

North Korea, amongst many other countries, is listed as secular...

 

By people who don't understand secularism.

 

Fundamentally, to discover if a country is secular you only need ask one question really:

 

Can everyone practise whatever religion they want freely, and without fear of persecution by the state?

 

If the answer is 'no' then it is not secular.

 

I suppose a second question representing the flip side would be 'Do members of any religions get special treatment by the state not afforded to members of other religions?'

 

Where if the answer is 'yes' you lose points.

 

The UK is officially Christian, and NK officially has no religion, yet the UK is 10,000 times more secular than North Korea. Like mirror images of each other, one is a secular democracy that is officially a theocracy. Whilst the other is a dictatorship with theocratic tendencies which is 'officially' secular. It's also 'officially' a republic but I bet you don't buy that!

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 16:04 ----------

 

And wikipedia, the source of ultimate truth (joke)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state

Lists NKorea as one of the many secular countries in the world.

 

That list is monumentally stupid, and one of the worst wikipedia pages I've ever seen. Don't believe it.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2016 at 16:08 ----------

 

Israel's a bit like that too. Though it is often described as a Jewish state, it isn't really a Jewish state at all. It was conceived as being a state for Jews, not a Jewish state, and which is not the same thing. It's a secular state. There is no official or state religion, unlike in some countries like the UK, Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, or Malaysia.

 

A secular state that has a specific law on it's books for over half a century offering citizenship to people if they are members of one specific religion?

 

You're having a laugh surely?

Edited May 20, 2016 by flamingjimmy

[Jukes]

Every country with Muslims in it would be safer if Islam were to undergo an enlightenment. Muslim majority countries withhold be more safer, and Islamic states the most safer. Until they undergo an enlightenment they will continue to be less safe for everyone inside them.

[gomgeg]

Every country with Muslims in it would be safer if Islam were to undergo an enlightenment. Muslim majority countries withhold be more safer, and Islamic states the most safer. Until they undergo an enlightenment they will continue to be less safe for everyone inside them.

Excellent, I agree with that,err no I don't, I'm not sure now.

[Cyclone]

Every country with Muslims in it would be safer if Islam were to undergo an enlightenment. Muslim majority countries withhold be more safer, and Islamic states the most safer. Until they undergo an enlightenment they will continue to be less safe for everyone inside them.

 

Irrelevant to this topic.

 

---------- Post added 22-05-2016 at 08:50 ----------

 

We can also see that secular nations are without exception more successful and more peaceful for everyone regardless of any belief.

Would you agree with this flamingjimmy?