Flu jab and viral illness

[onewheeldave]

People look up to doctors like they are gods.

 

They are portrayed that way by the mainstream media for a very good reason.

 

Cut,burn and drug is the basis of modern med i sin.

 

Nutrition,natural treatments etc are looked upon as quack health treatment.

 

Never trust a white coat. They are backed by big pharma.

 

 

True. In fairness though, the majority of GPs are sincere, very well intentioned, but, part of a medical system which leaves them ill-educated about preventative health, with procedures that gum up the system to the point that patients die unnecessarily, and a focus on long-term symptom management, not prevention.

 

Incidentally, in case you don't know, you will soon be attacked for your post by several roaming pseudo-rationalists, whose mission will be to wind you up to the point you break some board rule and get either banned, and/or, the whole thread pulled.

 

Don't get sucked into their game- stay cool, stay calm, do not swear, however great the provocation.

 

Good to see a poster with some visioh and understanding of what's really happening out there

 

---------- Post added 19-11-2015 at 20:51 ----------

 

 

Nutrition,natural treatments etc are looked upon as quack health treatment.

Also, I'll mention that during my extensive research into diet and nutritient over the past two years, I am aware of a large number of, mainly US, doctors (fully qualified practitioners in the orthodox medical system), who are very much into nutrition, and, who are highly condemning of the sympton management/illness maintenance approach of modern healthcare to the big illnesses of diabetes, heart disease (considered by them to be totally preventable and, curable by diet alone), obesity and cancer.

 

If you want links to them, let me know.

[Obelix]

True.

 

Wrong.

 

In fairness though, the majority of GPs are sincere, very well intentioned, but, part of a medical system which leaves them ill-educated about preventative health,

 

Prove it.

 

with procedures that gum up the system to the point that patients die unnecessarily, and a focus on long-term symptom management, not prevention.

 

Prove it.

 

Incidentally, in case you don't know, you will soon be attacked for your post by several roaming pseudo-rationalists, whose mission will be to wind you up to the point you break some board rule and get either banned, and/or, the whole thread pulled.

 

Asking you to justify your claims is attacking you? Please.

 

 

Good to see a poster with some visioh and understanding of what's really happening out there

 

And no matter how much vision you have you still are short on hard evidence and proof.

 

Also, I'll mention that during my extensive research into diet and nutritient over the past two years,

 

Reading stuff on the internet isn't "research"

 

I am aware of a large number of, mainly US, doctors (fully qualified practitioners in the orthodox medical system), who are very much into nutrition, and, who are highly condemning of the sympton management/illness maintenance approach of modern healthcare to the big illnesses of diabetes, heart disease (considered by them to be totally preventable and, curable by diet alone), obesity and cancer.

 

If you want links to them, let me know.

 

Evidence for any of this? You have carried out double blind studies yes? Sufficiently large cohort size? Corrected for underlying issues and published the work in a peer reviewed journal?

 

If not you are just spitting in the wind, and it's just anecdote.

[onewheeldave]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

No problem.

 

"Are there many/any documented examples of doctors being punished for not prescribing antibiotics?"

 

 

was included in the quote you replied to- does our agreement to disagree impact upon that at all, in terms of you thinking on whether the existence or non-existence of actual incidences of doctors being punished would be relevant to it being something a doctor should take into account when deciding on prescribing an anti-biotic to a patient?

 

You probably don't want to comment, in which case, that's cool- I don't want you to feel I'm being demanding or pushy.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 01:15 ----------

 

Originally Posted by onewheeldave View Post

I am aware of a large number of, mainly US, doctors (fully qualified practitioners in the orthodox medical system), who are very much into nutrition, and, who are highly condemning of the sympton management/illness maintenance approach of modern healthcare to the big illnesses of diabetes, heart disease (considered by them to be totally preventable and, curable by diet alone), obesity and cancer.

 

If you want links to them, let me know.

 

Evidence for any of this? You have carried out double blind studies yes? Sufficiently large cohort size? Corrected for underlying issues and published the work in a peer reviewed journal?

 

Evidence for what I'm claiming above? Yes.

 

Evidence for my claim that "I am aware of a large number of, mainly US, doctors (fully qualified practitioners in the orthodox medical system), who are very much into nutrition, and, who are highly condemning of the sympton management/illness maintenance approach of modern healthcare to the big illnesses of diabetes, heart disease (considered by them to be totally preventable and, curable by diet alone), obesity and cancer."

 

Here's one such US doctor who is "very much into nutrition, and, who are highly condemning of the sympton management/illness maintenance approach of modern healthcare to the big illnesses of diabetes, heart disease (considered by them to be totally preventable and, curable by diet alone), obesity and cancer."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldwell_Esselstyn

 

Highly qualified doctor who treated ex-president Clinton for heart disease after his heart bypass, with a program that was primarily diet based.

 

I believe he also recently testified before a senate committee.

 

So, I think that counts as evidence for my claim above- HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure (not accusing you of being overly predictable here), that you're going to violently disagree with Dr Esslestyns views, despite the fact that he's a fully qualified doctor and you're.....not.....

 

In which case, you'll be able to contact him and, I'm sure, he'll be happy to provide you with an abundance of evidence, and you can then thrash it out with the source, as it were. (please do not come trailing after me for the evidence of Dr Esslestyns views, as, CLEARLY, he can do a far better job than me in providing you with evidence of his work).

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 01:19 ----------

 

here's his email contact details (found it on his site for you)

 

To contact Dr. Esselstyn via email, please write to Jacqueline Frey at EssyProgram@ccf.org or call 216-448-8556. Due to the volume of emails, please limit email concerns to cardiovascular disease.

 

Have just noticed he's selling DVDs on his site, and I recall you don't like that kind of stuff, so, I guess the 2 of you are going to have some interesting, if conflicting, discussions. Hope you find what you're looking for

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

If not you are just spitting in the wind, and it's just anecdote.

 

I've been open about my respect for certain types of anecdotal evidence. I'm OK with certain types of anecdotal evidence as they came in very usefull during the process of me losing 2 stones of fat and greatly improving my own health, by dietary means.

 

Being able to get away from futilely wading through the confusion, deception and corruption evident in most of the study-based 'evidence', and, instead, watch real people, and real communities, make solid progress in diet and health, and, post their results, for me and others to examine, question, test and, if desired, emulate, was, in comparison, refreshing, and, PRODUCTIVE.

 

It does have a serious down-side, however. Sitting here, in possession of knowledge that saved me from ill-health, knowing that 1000's of others have similarly helped themselves, and are, in many cases, trying to get the message out to help others, it's incredibly frustrating watching the population of the 'developed world' suffering epidemics of unnecessary chronic disease that simply do not exist (in anything but small numbers) in populations that EAT REAL FOOD, but are ridiculed by low-intellect apologists for a system that IS CLEARLY NOT SANE.

Edited November 20, 2015 by onewheeldave

[Obelix]

So in other words, you have no evidence besides anecdote at all for this miracle diet of yours. (and for the stuff about the US doctors which wasn't what I was asking about but then again I expect misdirection from you as a matter of course)

 

Thanks for clarifying.

[onewheeldave]

So in other words, you have no evidence besides anecdote at all for this miracle diet of yours. (and for the stuff about the US doctors which wasn't what I was asking about but then again I expect misdirection from you as a matter of course)

 

I've got loads of evidence in addition to the anecdotal stuff- studies posted by actual qualified doctors along with their detailed analyses.

 

Unfortunately, they're mainly getting the message out via youtube vids (as they're fully aware of the utter futility of trying to get it out via the highly biased medical journals that are funded primarily by ads, which greatly affects there priotities when selecting what gets published.

 

And, you have a total aversion to 'evidence' via youtube vids, so, unless you say otherwise, I'll not bother giving you links to it.

 

Speaking of evidence, as you seem so keen on the stuff, I do have clear medical evidence to prove my claim that I'm autistic, and, am prepared (as mentioned previously) to show it. Do you fancy meeting up in town briefly, so I can show you my evidence, and, you can show me your medical report proving that you've been officially diagnosed?

 

It would be good for us to clear that up, as currently, I'm concerned that, in your case, it's possible that, given the 'understanding' of autism you display on these threads, you're actually self-diagnosed, and, under the misunderstanding that self diagnosis is a reliable method of establishing that.

 

Still, easy to put that doubt to rest with a display of evidence, yes?

 

Thanks for clarifying.

No probs- always willing to help you out buddy

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 11:20 ----------

 

======================================

 

http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm

 

Resolving the Coronary Artery Disease Epidemic through Plant-Based Nutrition

 

article by Caldwell B. Esselstyn.

 

Obelix- no doubt you'll either not read it, or, you'll read it and find it wanting. I'm not going to say it's evidence by your standards, but I'll post it on the thread as some here may find it usefull in some way.

 

ps should pint out that while I have immense respect for Caldwell et al. The diet he advocates is a vegan one (actually no- it's a low-fat vegan diet, which is not the same), however, I personally, in a kind of bet-hedging manner, consume a low-fat plant based diet, with small amounts of animal produce.

 

Unfortunately, that is an issue, in that I am fully aware of the abominalities of the meat/dairy industry, and, despite the fact that I am clearly contributing to that horror far less than the average meat eater, it is still a great moral dilema for me, and may well lead to me becoming vegan despite my fears that small amounts of animal produce are necessary for optimal health.

Edited November 20, 2015 by onewheeldave

[Obelix]

Speaking of evidence, as you seem so keen on the stuff, I do have clear medical evidence to prove my claim that I'm autistic

 

I've never doubted your claim, and so I've no need to see it. You are confusing me with another poster you said you were going to show it to I think (who also didn't doubt your claim as far as I know).

[onewheeldave]

I've never doubted your claim, and so I've no need to see it. You are confusing me with another poster you said you were going to show it to I think (who also didn't doubt your claim as far as I know).

 

No, I'm not confusing you- that poster made no claim to be autistic- you have made that claim (maybe you phrased it as 'being on the autistic spectrum?).

 

If I'm wrong, and you've not made that claim, then I truly apologise; I know I've got serious memory issues but I didn't think they were that bad.

 

If you have made that claim though, presumably you'll be happy to meet and exchange evidence?

[Obelix]

I can't imagine why you think I'd be happy to meet and take a half day out to provide proof of that, especially when I don't demand that of you.

 

Now since you are going to derail this topic yet again, I will keep my replies on topic. Start another thread if you want to talk about something else.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Obelix

[onewheeldave]

Awesome vid here-

 

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2011/05/dr-mcdougall-nutrition-bill-passed-in-senate-committee-video.html

 

Dr Mcdougal and several other doctors have managed to bypass medical system inertia by taking a legal route and getting a bill passed in California,

 

"requiring all medical doctors in the state of California to include a course on nutrition as part of their continuing medical education."

 

"The bill was strongly opposed by the California Medical Association, on the grounds that the legislature should not be telling doctors "how to practice medicine." A version of the bill modified from the initial draft passed the committee this past Monday."

 

I'd be interested to see what any of the doubters on here think of the contents of the vid. I'll say in advance, for those who prefer not to watch the vid, and instead go searching for 'dirt' to discredit- yes, Dr McDougal is a Christian, and, he does sell products on his website.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 11:48 ----------

 

I can't imagine why you think I'd be happy to meet and take a half day out to provide proof of that, especially when I don't demand that of you.

 

Now since you are going to derail this topic yet again, I will keep my replies on topic. Start another thread if you want to talk about something else.

 

Won't take half a day.

 

Your choice.

 

You've provided no evidence whatsoever. At all. I'm sorry to break it to you but that's the way it goes.

 

If you have some - come back.

As always, you say it best

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 11:51 ----------

 

I can't imagine why you think I'd be happy to meet and take a half day out to provide proof of that, especially when I don't demand that of you.

 

Now since you are going to derail this topic yet again, I will keep my replies on topic. Start another thread if you want to talk about something else.

 

And, dude. There's clear evidence on this thread that when I cease to engage with your posts (due to your accusation that I'm 'off-topic') that, despite having the last word, you just can't cease posting your own off-topic posts complaining that my posts were off-topic.

 

So, if you want to stay on-topic, do so, and cease blaming it on me, please.

Edited November 20, 2015 by onewheeldave

[Daven]

Dear God !

Can we not stay on topic please ?

Do you remember ? The flu jab and viral illness !