Flu jab and viral illness

[Annie Bynnol]

So what's the alternative to herd immunity to protect those who can't be vaccinated?

 

My original statements "Relying on "Herd immunity" does not protect the non-vaccinated and is a danger to many." and "Assuming "herd immunity" applies to airports, cinemas, football grounds, other countries is medically very wrong.", were intended to explain my view that those who selfishly choose to not to be vaccinated for whatever wacky reasons are putting themselves and others who cannot be protected at risk.

 

To them I say "herd immunity" is a statistic not protection. "Herd immunity" is not protection but a defence that can be overcome. In my use of English I choose to differntiate between "protection"-absolute and "defence"-to a degree.

 

"Herd immunity" effect works best when the population is healthy, immunized and periodically exposed. Immunisation also reduces the opportunity for the virus to mutate, combine or find new ways of spreading.

 

Most diseases spread best amongst crowded populations where chance contact with carriers increase rapidly In theses situations the unnvaccinated will repeatedly contact carriers which will reduce the "herd immunity" effect. In these situtations the non vaccinated are very foolish to rely on statistics and are a danger to others.

[SnailyBoy]

My original statements "Relying on "Herd immunity" does not protect the non-vaccinated and is a danger to many." and "Assuming "herd immunity" applies to airports, cinemas, football grounds, other countries is medically very wrong.", were intended to explain my view that those who selfishly choose to not to be vaccinated for whatever wacky reasons are putting themselves and others who cannot be protected at risk.

 

To them I say "herd immunity" is a statistic not protection. "Herd immunity" is not protection but a defence that can be overcome. In my use of English I choose to differntiate between "protection"-absolute and "defence"-to a degree.

 

"Herd immunity" effect works best when the population is healthy, immunized and periodically exposed. Immunisation also reduces the opportunity for the virus to mutate, combine or find new ways of spreading.

 

Most diseases spread best amongst crowded populations where chance contact with carriers increase rapidly In theses situations the unnvaccinated will repeatedly contact carriers which will reduce the "herd immunity" effect. In these situtations the non vaccinated are very foolish to rely on statistics and are a danger to others.

 

I agree.

 

Coming from a point of being vaccinated from being a child/teenager, it would be interesting to hear from someone who hasn't been vaccinated through choice and how they would respond to the potential risk, especially traveling to countries where vaccination programs aren't so robust.

Edited November 28, 2017 by SnailyBoy

[onewheeldave]

It's not a black and white thing for everyone. Some don't generally get vaccinated but will if forced (eg travel to some places requires compulsory vaccinations).

 

Others will have some vaccinations, but not others (a lot of people who have vaccinations will refuse the flu vaccine).

 

Another good example of the above, is during the autism vaccine scare, many parents would have happily had their children given the measles jab, but opposed the 'triple jab'. In that situation, had the NHS offered the single jab, uptake would have been higher.

 

A lot of people with issues concerning the systems associated with vaccines (eg the pharmaceutical industry) are actually on board with the science behind vaccines, but consider the administration of vaccines to be highly problematic.

 

Then you can add in the people who respect the science behind vaccines, but, oppose organisations being controlling (see above).

[SnailyBoy]

It's not a black and white thing for everyone. Some don't generally get vaccinated but will if forced (eg travel to some places requires compulsory vaccinations).

 

Others will have some vaccinations, but not others (a lot of people who have vaccinations will refuse the flu vaccine).

 

Another good example of the above, is during the autism vaccine scare, many parents would have happily had their children given the measles jab, but opposed the 'triple jab'. In that situation, had the NHS offered the single jab, uptake would have been higher.

 

A lot of people with issues concerning the systems associated with vaccines (eg the pharmaceutical industry) are actually on board with the science behind vaccines, but consider the administration of vaccines to be highly problematic.

 

Then you can add in the people who respect the science behind vaccines, but, oppose organisations being controlling (see above).

 

Would you travel to a country where vaccinations were strongly advised but not compulsory, without getting vaccinated?

[onewheeldave]

Would you travel to a country where vaccinations were strongly advised but not compulsory, without getting vaccinated?

 

Many people would make that choice depending on a host of factors- they'd likely do some research into the specific vaccine, research into the validity of the advising organisation etc.

[SnailyBoy]

Many people would make that choice depending on a host of factors- they'd likely do some research into the specific vaccine, research into the validity of the advising organisation etc.

 

What would you do?

 

Let's say you were travelling to Egypt. Typhoid and Tetanus vaccinations are recommended.

 

Advice come from the NHS

Edited November 28, 2017 by SnailyBoy

[Daven]

Many people would make that choice depending on a host of factors- they'd likely do some research into the specific vaccine, research into the validity of the advising organisation etc.

 

I think they are more likely to research the effects of getting tetanus, typhoid, malaria etc before deciding to have the recommend jabs - those with a modicum of sense anyway.

 

---------- Post added 28-11-2017 at 11:56 ----------

 

[/color]

Yes,I believe their science on vaccines to be a sham.

 

To believe that by directly injecting a witches brew of known toxins in to the body and expect overall health benefits is beyond me.

 

To you petemcewan - it seems to come down to trust in their science.

 

It's indeed a very hard obstacle to overcome.

 

Start by watching the documentary from Denmark that has many testimonies from girls harmed by the cervical cancer vaccine. I say harmed,shattered is sadly much closer to where they are at.

 

Yes - sad to say I think they really are.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Daven

[Annie Bynnol]

It's not a black and white thing for everyone. Some don't generally get vaccinated but will if forced (eg travel to some places requires compulsory vaccinations).

 

Others will have some vaccinations, but not others (a lot of people who have vaccinations will refuse the flu vaccine).

 

Another good example of the above, is during the autism vaccine scare, many parents would have happily had their children given the measles jab, but opposed the 'triple jab'. In that situation, had the NHS offered the single jab, uptake would have been higher.

 

A lot of people with issues concerning the systems associated with vaccines (eg the pharmaceutical industry) are actually on board with the science behind vaccines, but consider the administration of vaccines to be highly problematic.

 

Then you can add in the people who respect the science behind vaccines, but, oppose organisations being controlling (see above).

 

What an good example of how to counter fraud, misinformation and media hysteria.

 

Wakefield and his fraudulent pals inundated the media with their myths, to increase the level of hysteria and emotion in the public for their own personal gain.

 

These people seeded the idea of the single vaccine to further their cause which was already known to be totally scientifically false, but not yet proved in court.

Desperate parents could have the single vaccine if they wished but they would be provided by the NHS.

The three main reasons were:

uneccessary extra costs

MMR was a more effective

furthering the myth and increasing unwarranted concern

[onewheeldave]

I think they are more likely to research the effects of getting tetanus, typhoid, malaria etc before deciding to have the recommend jabs - those with a modicum of sense anyway.

 

The people I have in mind are critical thinkers- they don't need to do more research on that, as it's well known that tetanus, typhoid, malaria are extremely bad things to get infected by

 

And like I said, they are many people who will happily get vaccinated against malaria, who will refuse the flu jab.

 

So, for for compulsory vaccinations, the research would be into those specific vaccinations, into the advisory organisation (including financial links and vested interests), plus, as you mention, for less well known diseases than the 3 you highlight, the consequences of infection.

 

---------- Post added 28-11-2017 at 13:55 ----------

 

What would you do?

 

Let's say you were travelling to Egypt. Typhoid and Tetanus vaccinations are recommended.

 

Advice come from the NHS

I'm not a good example- I'm not a traveller. If I was facing travel to those regions I'd consider the issues then.

 

I can say though, I would be going beyond NHS advice, as I find a lot of NHS advice to be questionable (on other matters).

 

One example being the flu vaccine itself- the NHS advises it very strongly (to the point of putting actual pressure on some of it's employees), yet I have zero intention of getting a flu vaccine.

[SnailyBoy]

I'm not a good example- I'm not a traveller. If I was facing travel to those regions I'd consider the issues then.

 

I can say though, I would be going beyond NHS advice, as I find a lot of NHS advice to be questionable (on other matters).

 

One example being the flu vaccine itself- the NHS advises it very strongly (to the point of putting actual pressure on some of it's employees), yet I have zero intention of getting a flu vaccine.

 

Assuming you were vaccinated as a child/teenager(TB) and not a traveler, you're pretty well covered anyway.

 

As for the flu vaccine, the NHS only advise it for certain groups.