Flu jab and viral illness

[biotechpete]

The rationale for vaccinating healthcare workers is mostly to prevent them contracting influenza. The WHO has calculated efficacy at 88%.

http://www.who.int/immunization/position_papers/influenza_grad_efficacy_HCW.pdf

One might think that this would reduce the infection rate among patients but the evidence for this is poor. The reason for this is partly the limitation of the number of studies and the study designs; but also the small extent of the effect (as predicted by modelling).

http://www.who.int/immunization/position_papers/influenza_grad_impact_elderly_HCW_vaccination.pdf

 

Efficacy/effectiveness of TIV in health-care workers (HCWs)

There is scientific evidence for a protective effect of vaccinating HCWs against influenza infection, see Grad- ing table 5a,40

but less evidence that vaccination of

HCWs prevents influenza morbidity and mortality in residents of long-term care facilities for the elderly, see Grading table 5b.41

Safety

 

Nonetheless, WHO recommends a strategy of vaccinating healthcare workers as a supplement, and secondary, to children, the elderly and other vulnerable groups. A wider vaccination strategy with a less efficacious vaccine has the same real work effectiveness as a smaller group vaccination strategy with a highly efficacious vaccine. Since vaccine efficacy cannot be predicted and the UK has a lower than ideal take-up of vaccine among primary groups, healthcare worker vaccination is used as a supplement to boost the effectiveness of the vaccine in the population.

 

---------- Post added 30-11-2017 at 16:57 ----------

 

The link is to an article with the title:

 

"Harvard Immunologist: Unvaccinated children pose ZERO risk to anyone and here's why"

 

The author is not a "Harvard Immunologist".

 

And further, the role of children as super-spreaders of flu and common cold is now well established and known amongst virologists and immunologists, such that the UK has adopted a blanket vaccine strategy for children. You know that for the government to spend money on a vaccine programme these days the evidence needs to be almost cast iron.

[petemcewan]

Onewheeldave.

 

My apologies for my latest post if it came across as a little tangential to the discussion.I was endeavouring to point out that one can find articles that question antibodies as a source of immunity.

 

 

https://www.activistpost.com/2014/01/the-antibody-deception.html

[ANGELFIRE1]

Had mine yesterday after missing original date. Had my B12 in the other arm. Hope there is no conflict between the vaccines.

 

Angel1.

[SnailyBoy]

Had mine yesterday after missing original date. Had my B12 in the other arm. Hope there is no conflict between the vaccines.

 

Angel1.

 

B12 isn't a vaccine, so I reckon you'll be okay.

[petemcewan]

Onewheeldave.

 

My apologies for my latest post if it came across as a little tangential to the discussion.I was endeavouring to point out that one can find articles that question antibodies as a source of immunity.

 

 

https://www.activistpost.com/2014/01/the-antibody-deception.html

 

Biotechpete,

" but less evidence that vaccination of HCWs prevents influenza morbidity and mortality in residents of long-term care facilities for the elderly, see Grading table 5b.41

Safety".

Any idea what inhibiting factors are at work in residential facilities?

[MAC33]

In the meantime,hundreds if not thousands of girls are being seriously harmed in Denmark alone from the HPV cervical cancer vaccine......

 

 

http://www.foodmatters.com/article/a-short-documentary-on-the-hpv-vaccine-making-a-huge-impact

 

 

 

UK documentary -

Edited November 30, 2017 by MAC33

[petemcewan]

Mac33.

 

We are straying away a bit from the flu vaccine. However,here I go. HPV vaccination is avaiable for men. You've probably read about the illnesses associated with HPV infection.

Currently, there isn't a cure for HPV infection. If HPV vaccination is causing serious side effects is some recipients, why hasn't there been any controlled clinical monitoring of such events ?

[onewheeldave]

Had mine yesterday after missing original date. Had my B12 in the other arm. Hope there is no conflict between the vaccines.

 

Angel1.

 

B12 is known to be one of the safest substances going, in Holland the emergency services give it to smoke inhalation victims (as it binds with the cyanide in their system and escorts it out) in quantities far greater than is given to pernicious anaemia sufferers or those B12 deficiency.

 

Interestingly it's also an example of NHS control, as there are large groups of pernicious anaemia suffers in the UK who have symptoms that return within a month of having their injection.

 

Yet the NHS only allocates them 1 injection every 3 months. Despite the fact that B12 is very safe, and, very cheap.

 

I know all this because I had to source my own injectible B12 (the NHS refused to take seriously the fact that I had a B12 absorbancy issue that meant my B12 levels actually fell while taking high dose oral B12) and luckily found an organisation that supplied free B12 to pernicious anaemia suffers.

[biotechpete]

Onewheeldave.

 

My apologies for my latest post if it came across as a little tangential to the discussion.I was endeavouring to point out that one can find articles that question antibodies as a source of immunity.

 

 

https://www.activistpost.com/2014/01/the-antibody-deception.html

 

Biotechpete,

" but less evidence that vaccination of HCWs prevents influenza morbidity and mortality in residents of long-term care facilities for the elderly, see Grading table 5b.41

Safety".

Any idea what inhibiting factors are at work in residential facilities?

 

It's not that there are inhibitory factors in existence. There is poor evidence is, as i said, due to a) lack of good studies b) a small overall benefit.

 

The vaccine works in the heathcare workers. Heathcare workers won't acquire or spread influenza. The problem is, in long term care facilities including hospitals, relatives visit elderly patients. We don't have a unuversal vaccination strategy (because bluntly, its not cost effective) so 90%+ of the population are not immune. Vaccine efficacy has been poor in the elderly because until recently, elderly people were refractory to immune activation, and therefore immune memory development, in response to vaccination. There are now novel adjuvants and vaccines which work much better in the elderly. Like we have the special children's nasal vaccine we have special elderly vaccines too. So previously non-vaccinated individuals were passing flu on to vulnerable groups. This is why a wider vaccination strategy of a less efficacious vaccine achieves the same overall effect as a more efficacious vaccine with lower coverage.

 

---------- Post added 30-11-2017 at 23:45 ----------

 

Mac33.

 

We are straying away a bit from the flu vaccine. However,here I go. HPV vaccination is avaiable for men. You've probably read about the illnesses associated with HPV infection.

Currently, there isn't a cure for HPV infection. If HPV vaccination is causing serious side effects is some recipients, why hasn't there been any controlled clinical monitoring of such events ?

 

There has been controlled clinical monitoring of side effects. It's compulsory across the EU for all new drugs and vaccines. You can look for the results of these on an EU wide database (EUDraCT) set up by the brilliant European Medicines Agency. Importantly the amount if data from across the EU from this combined reporting provides earlier identifucation if statistically significant side effects. Brexit will therefore lead to less safe drugs.

[ANGELFIRE1]

B12 isn't a vaccine, so I reckon you'll be okay.

 

 

Cheers for that, I did ask the nurse, she said not to worry over it.

 

Angel1.