Eric Arthur Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 have you seen some of the vile stuff in the comments on news papers that fanatics of the right write? Get a grip. The comments in the Guardian are a cess pit of foamy mouthed leftists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Can you back this up at all? The inability to see shades of grey is remarkably common. The tendency to express things in black and white for emphasis when trying to win a debate is even more common. Have you considered natural observer bias? I would have said the reverse to you. That the left is puritanical and talks in black and white. Perhaps that's just the impression one builds up by looking at an argument from what is usually the opposite side. Some examples: I've heard people on the left suggest that the top tax rate should be 105%. i.e. that people should be punished for daring to try and earn so much. I've also heard the case made that the UK should have no military at all. I've heard the case that nobody should ever be punished for any crime as they only do it because society is unfair. I could go on. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 19:10 ---------- One thing that irks me about the left's debate tactics is the use of misleading language. The worst is that statements are made about state spending which are only true as a percentage of GDP and not true as stated. The phrase "real terms" has somehow been coopted to mean percentage of GDP when it always used to mean corrected for inflation. Whilst one might hold the (incorrect) opinion that spending as a percentage of GDP is what matters, that doesn't excuse the ue of language designed to deceive. The next worst I think would be the suggestion that the rich pay less tax that the poor. It's a similar thing. What they means is pay less tax as a percentage of their income. That's not the same thing. Both sides are guilty of using the single word "tax" to refer to total taxation and income tax or corporation tax depending on the situation, which is again highly misleading. Yes I can back it up. This study for example: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9292100 I agree that both sides use simplistic arguments. I'm arguing that they are used by those on the right more often. The Daily Mail runs this story every few weeks, just with a different target family http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3280676/Mother-12-claims-40-000-benefits-wants-NHS-pay-tummy-tuck-improve-sex-life.html No balance at all. Nothing that says what the average benefits claim is, nothing about low levels of fraud etc.. The message is that this is what aa typical benefits claimant looks like. Just a hit piece designed to push buttons and the button pushing works. It's designed to appeal to the simple minded and appeal it does. Yes, you might see similar crap in the Mirror etc... But these articles appear in the right wing press day after day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Yes I can back it up. This study for example: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9292100 I agree that both sides use simplistic arguments. I'm arguing that they are used by those on the right more often. The Daily Mail runs this story every few weeks, just with a different target family http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3280676/Mother-12-claims-40-000-benefits-wants-NHS-pay-tummy-tuck-improve-sex-life.html No balance at all. Nothing that says what the average benefits claim is, nothing about low levels of fraud etc.. The message is that this is what aa typical benefits claimant looks like. Just a hit piece designed to push buttons and the button pushing works. It's designed to appeal to the simple minded and appeal it does. Yes, you might see similar crap in the Mirror etc... But these articles appear in the right wing press day after day. Once again, a lefty trying to label all right leaning people as being gullible and stupid. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 19:50 ---------- I think you missed mine too. The point I was making is that the right is more prone to simplistic binary thought. My point was not that both sides don't have the issue. They clearly both do. One side is worse than the other. .... in your opinion (and owing to confirmation bias). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyM Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 For someone who doesn't want to be called a racist Ricky you sure do come across as jaw droppingly staggeringly racist. Acceptance is the first step Ricky. Take that first step! Quite what all this has to do with the left losing their way I have no idea. I'm not racist - just a patriot that wants my country back. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 19:55 ---------- You are aware that over 50% of the population of Poland, over 50% of the Slovene, and Bosniak ethnic groups have blue eyes? OCA2 is the gene that controls it that underwent a mutation about 10,000 years ago in one individual. Everyone with blue eyes is descended from that person. Blue eyes are natural. Most British people have blue eyes and that's a sign of belonging to this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Once again, a lefty trying to label all right leaning people as being gullible and stupid. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 19:50 ---------- .... in your opinion (and owing to confirmation bias). The thing is whiteowl I'm not labelling all right wingers that way. I make that clear. But to you it has to be a simple binary situation. If I am saying it about some right wingers I have to be labeling all... You have helped prove my point ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 20:02 ---------- Blue eyes are natural. Most British people have blue eyes and that's a sign of belonging to this country. You forgot the blonde hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The thing is whiteowl I'm not labelling all right wingers that way. I make that clear. But to you it has to be a simple binary situation. If I am saying it about some right wingers I have to be labeling all... You have helped prove my point It's WiseOwl. You said: "Just a hit piece designed to push buttons and the button pushing works. It's designed to appeal to the simple minded and appeal it does." The clear implication of that is you are labelling Daily Mail readers as simple minded. You never qualified it with "some". There's also the assumption that right leaning people only read the Mail. I never read it. I get most of my news from that publicly funded Labour press agency, aka BBC News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I am right wing in some issues but what would be considered left wing in others. I cant see either right or left having all the solutions. A blend of ideas works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 It's WiseOwl. You said: "Just a hit piece designed to push buttons and the button pushing works. It's designed to appeal to the simple minded and appeal it does." The clear implication of that is you are labelling Daily Mail readers as simple minded. You never qualified it with "some". There's also the assumption that right leaning people only read the Mail. I never read it. I get most of my news from that publicly funded Labour press agency, aka BBC News. Read my other posts in this thread. Very clear that I do not see this as an exclusively right wing trait. Plenty of left wing thickos too. But see, you prove my point again with your blanket view of the BBC as left wing. It isn't. But to you because it has a more balanced view than the right wing media it must be left wing. No grey areas. No real thought. It's one thing or the other. Can't be in between. This is sad to witness. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 20:21 ---------- I am right wing in some issues but what would be considered left wing in others. I cant see either right or left having all the solutions. A blend of ideas works best. We're basically a pretty conservative country in some respects, more liberal and left wing in others. Most of us are like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Read my other posts in this thread. Very clear that I do not see this as an exclusively right wing trait. Plenty of left wing thickos too. But see, you prove my point again with your blanket view of the BBC as left wing. It isn't. But to you because it has a more balanced view than the right wing media it must be left wing. No grey areas. No real thought. It's one thing or the other. Can't be in between. This is sad to witness. It's sad to witness you labelling right wingers as thick, even if it was in one post or 1,000 posts. You still did it. No grey areas. No real thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 It's sad to witness you labelling right wingers as thick, even if it was in one post or 1,000 posts. You still did it. No grey areas. No real thought. I said there were left wing thickos too. I'm not labeling or being tribal. Just stating facts. And you prove my point yet again - because I've said some right wingers are think they must all be thick? You are saying that, not me. You are projecting your lack of nuanced thought onto me. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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