WiseOwl182 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Yes it was very naughty of me picking examples of grotesqueness visited on persecuted minorities by the religious right. And that it happens in America too. That poor, oppressed country. Plenty of other countries to choose from, with far worse problems and often state backed, not just actions of a few loony groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 To answer the original poster The left have become un-electable. To obtain an elected majority they would have to hold 51% 0f the votes cast. Unfortunately this never equates to 51% of the population due to apathy on behalf of many of the electorate. (right and left) What we are now seeing is uncontrolled conservatism due to voters in the last election failing to realise what we had was possibly the better of the ideological stand-offs. Okay. I'm going to ignore the crazy idea that Ed Miliband would have made a better PM that the old scab I just found on the floor for now. You don't need 51% of the vote to win a majority in parliament. You need "51%" of the MPs. Depending on all manner of things, largest the vote splitting on a constituency by constituency basis, this usually requires something like 40% of the total vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Okay. I'm going to ignore the crazy idea that Ed Miliband would have made a better PM that the old scab I just found on the floor for now. You don't need 51% of the vote to win a majority in parliament. You need "51%" of the MPs. Depending on all manner of things, largest the vote splitting on a constituency by constituency basis, this usually requires something like 40% of the total vote. :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you fail to do so, surely it shows that you see things in black and white. Nope, I add other sentences to the posts to make it clear. It's not my fault that the whole list does not then get quouted when other people respond to them. ---------- Post added 12-11-2015 at 07:26 ---------- Exactly. So just because a right winger implies there are benefit scroungers, for example, without specifically stating *some*, it doesn't mean he/she is saying they ALL are. But as a binary left winger, that's how you interpret it. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 21:24 ---------- Beat me to it! Like I said the overall tone is not set by individual sentences but by the whole post. You repeatedly quote only parts of my posts. But I look forward to you making sure every part of your argument is fully qualified in every sentence without the use of any additional sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Nope, I add other sentences to the posts to make it clear. It's not my fault that the whole list does not then get quouted when other people respond to them. ---------- Post added 12-11-2015 at 07:26 ---------- Like I said the overall tone is not set by individual sentences but by the whole post. You repeatedly quote only parts of my posts. But I look forward to you making sure every part of your argument is fully qualified in every sentence without the use of any additional sentences. One rule for you and the left and another for those with whom you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I was always to the left, especially when I was much younger. There's a saying that if you're not a communist by the time you're 18, there's something wrong with your heart. But if you're still one when you're 28 there's something wrong with your head. I agree with this. I always see the left as more compassionate as they argue for the rights of the poor and disadvantaged. In recent years though they seem to have gotten very nasty, hateful really. Anyone with a different opinion is subject to a barrage of abuse. I'm talking about the followers of the left, not the leaders like Corbyn etc. This is most visible on the comments sections of newspapers.... Have you noticed? One thing I have noticed over the last few years is a type of 'hipster' left that doesn't really seem to know much about politics but will happily 'share' some wishy washy statement about anti-materialism on facebook and then in another post show off their new trainers/ipad/designer (no strength lens) glasses. It seems that there is some kind of false left-trend bandwagon that some people are jumping on. I'm mildly left, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's hard to be "left" once you have an understanding of history and/or economics. Capitalism is far from perfect, but Socialism is a disaster every time it's tried. Once you realise this, you can't be a socialist. If you're not a socialist, you're no longer classified by those who are, as "left". I'd be classified as moderate left on essentially every issue, except that I don't believe in socialism. Not because I don't see the virtues of it idealistically, but because I also recognise its vices. More than anything because I know it doesn't work. It's no good bleating on endlessly about how things would be better and fairer with more socialism. The matter is debatable academically, but it doesn't matter whether it's true or not because it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DnAuK Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's hard to be "left" once you have an understanding of history and/or economics. Capitalism is far from perfect, but Socialism is a disaster every time it's tried. Once you realise this, you can't be a socialist. If you're not a socialist, you're no longer classified by those who are, as "left". I'd be classified as moderate left on essentially every issue, except that I don't believe in socialism. Not because I don't see the virtues of it idealistically, but because I also recognise its vices. More than anything because I know it doesn't work. It's no good bleating on endlessly about how things would be better and fairer with more socialism. The matter is debatable academically, but it doesn't matter whether it's true or not because it doesn't work. Very true. Wasn't it Karl Marx who claimed Ca\pitalism was doomed to fail and Socialism the only true way forward? When in actual fact the exact oppostite has happened. In their purest form either sound like a good idea on paper. However, as you say, people always find away to exploit and Socialism seems more prone to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonb Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Okay. I'm going to ignore the crazy idea that Ed Miliband would have made a better PM that the old scab I just found on the floor for now. You don't need 51% of the vote to win a majority in parliament. You need "51%" of the MPs. Depending on all manner of things, largest the vote splitting on a constituency by constituency basis, this usually requires something like 40% of the total vote. Yes, you are 100% correct, I think the cough medicine must have been a bit strong last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orzel Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Socialism is a nice idea, human nature isn't that nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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