What Has Happened To The Left?

[Anna B]

Then why don't they say that?

If Anna B or I1L2T3 would just say that "left" means either in absolute or relative terms "socialist" I'd have been quite content as that was always my understanding.

 

Instead I've got them congratulating each other for vague, circular reasoning that only seems to make sense between the 2 of them and expressing surprise and dismay that I find their answers unsatisfactory.

I1L2T3 implied that there was something wrong with me because I questioned his definition of "left" which defined it in terms of "left".

 

Why do we have to be defined in black and white, right or left? What do you call those in the centre, and how far left and right are centrists allowed to be before they become left or right wing in your opinion?

 

What if your views are part socialist and part capitalist? Even within both parties' heirarchy there are opposing views and disagreements that would brand some people the opposite of what their party stands for.

 

One of the things I like about Jeremy Corbyn's new style Labour party, is that you are not told by the people at the top what you must believe, to be cinsidered true supporters, but that policy will be decided by taking the views and opinions of the members into account, so some decisions will be left and some will be right.

 

I know it's something we're not used to, but some people just can't seem to get their head around this.

[unbeliever]

Why do we have to be defined in black and white, right or left? What do you call those in the centre, and how far left and right are centrists allowed to be before they become left or right wing in your opinion?

 

What if your views are part socialist and part capitalist? Even within both parties' heirarchy there are opposing views and disagreements that would brand some people the opposite of what their party stands for.

 

One of the things I like about Jeremy Corbyn's new style Labour party, is that you are not told by the people at the top what you must believe, to be cinsidered true supporters, but that policy will be decided by taking the views and opinions of the members into account, so some decisions will be left and some will be right.

 

I know it's something we're not used to, but some people just can't seem to get their head around this.

 

Almost everybody's view are part capitalist and part socialist.

Therefore everybody's views are part right and part left.

 

It makes no kind of sense to suggest that substituting the word "left" for the word "socialist" makes things less "black and white". It's a euphemism and it's silly.

 

It's exactly the same question. How much of the economy should the state control for purposes of public services, nationalised industry and redistribution?

Whether you call it socialist->capitalist or statist->libertarian or left->right, it's all the same question.

 

Either the socialists are engaged in some kind of crass make-over or they're trying to trick moderates into associating national socialism, and stalinism and/or marxism and the like with capitalism.

They've got as far as establishing the convention that truly nasty people everybody hates are to be referred to as "far right". Something with which I will not cooperate no matter how much others use it. But I doubt it'll get much further.

[I1L2T3]

I really don't require educating.

A social democrat supports established unions, extensive redistribution of wealth, and high state spending (therefore big government). It's a kind of socialism. It's a moderate kind of socialism because it allows for some highly regulated capitalism to go on rather than calling for the nationalisation of everything. But it's still socialism.

 

With all due respect you do you need to make some effort to understand the difference between being a social democrat and a socialist. There is quite a gap between the two. I would never consider myself a socialist although I would class myself as left of centre politically.

 

If this is making your brain melt down, then good.

[Anna B]

You're all socialists.

Anna B, I1L2T3 and Corbyn.

You're not extreme, hard line, looney socialists; but you are socialists.

Even Corbyn is a moderate by historical standards even if he looks radical by modern UK standards.

 

Why don't you just say that?

As I suspected all along. Left means in support of more socialism and less capitalism than the status quo.

I never suggested that all socialists are radical Marxists.

 

And yet I have never voted for Labour, (and I have voted in every election since I was old enough.)

[MikeFrank]

As Andrew Neil has pointed out. If Corbyn is for no military intervention in Syria at all how does he think Jihad John could have been arrested?

[unbeliever]

And yet I have never voted for Labour, (and I have voted in every election since I was old enough.)

 

Okay.

You have plenty of other socialists to choose from:

Green

SNP (scotland only)

PC (wales only)

BNP

Plenty of other smaller parties

 

Sometimes socialists vote Lib Dem. The Lib Dem party is a mixture, but they put up socialist candidates in this region.

[Mister M]

I note some on the left are complaining that Jihadi John was killed and not arrested. Need I say more. Its a pity the left seem to want to make themselves unelectable.

 

Some of the families of those that were slaughtered by Emwazi, have expressed regret that he wasn't made to stand in a court of law and be held accountable for his crimes.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with your comment.

[Eric Arthur]

Some of the families of those that were slaughtered by Emwazi, have expressed regret that he wasn't made to stand in a court of law and be held accountable for his crimes.

 

That would be lovely. How?

[I1L2T3]

Okay.

You have plenty of other socialists to choose from:

Green

SNP (scotland only)

PC (wales only)

BNP

Plenty of other smaller parties

 

Sometimes socialists vote Lib Dem. The Lib Dem party is a mixture, but they put up socialist candidates in this region.

 

The LibDems attracts some socialists. So is the LibDem party socialist?

[unbeliever]

The LibDems attracts some socialists. So is the LibDem party socialist?

 

There are both in the lib dems. They put up capitalist candidates in capitalist areas and socialist candidates in socialist areas. They're still an alliance of the old Whigs and the Labour splinter group SDP.