Jonny5 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 For someone who doesn't want to be called a racist Ricky you sure do come across as jaw droppingly staggeringly racist. Acceptance is the first step Ricky. Take that first step! Quite what all this has to do with the left losing their way I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 :hihi: That's a problem on both sides, as you've been told many many times It just doesn't sink in because....well there's no nice way of saying it....because you are one of the people that it applies to! Actually I try to see both sides and be as fair as possible, to the extent where I've supported right wing-minded posters on here when they were being attacked by lefties. I don't expect you to be nice to me Jonny so you can say what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 The actual quote is by Winston Churchill. Somewhat different to your version. I wasn't aware of that... I heard it first on the Michael Parkinson show and Denis Healy (of all people) quoted his father as saying it... I don't know who his father was but he would have been of the same generation, or maybe older, as Churchill... Don't know who said it first.... ---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 21:00 ---------- I wasn't aware of that... I heard it first on the Michael Parkinson show and Denis Healy (of all people) quoted his father as saying it... I don't know who his father was but he would have been of the same generation, or maybe older, as Churchill... Don't know who said it first.... Although I do like the quote about Lord Soames (Churchills grandson) by his ex wife. In relation to their love life she said. or words to the effect, "Making love to him was like having a wardrobe fall on me....... with the key still in" ---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 21:13 ---------- have you seen some of the vile stuff in the comments on news papers that fanatics of the right write? Yes but I am not talking about extreme right wing views about immigration etc. I was talking about how the left attack the centre and right wing with some pretty vile slurs and abuse. There arent any extreme right wing parties of any note. I think Tory/Ukip are centre right. Lib Dems centre left. Then there's SNP/Labour on the left.. This is something that's been on my mind for a while. I have many family members who are clearly left wing and lots of friends who are clearly right wing so the stuff that ends up on my facebook page varies an awful lot! What I find however is that those to the left are damn right venomous and come down heavily on anyone who has a remotely different view to theirs, even going to the extremes of wishing that the likes of Cameron, Katie Hopkins and even Jeremy Clarkson were dead! Those on the right however are much more tolerant of those with different views and in many ways just laugh it off, normally just posting about immigration, the state of the Country, our troops etc etc. The left wing are meant to be more caring, more liberal and less 'thuggish' but from what I see in the media, on facebook and at the various demonstrations around the Country they seem to be lacking in the very things that they preach about .... more so now the Corbyn movement has taken effect. For me one of the problems is that they see everyone to the right of them as right wing and there just isn't no middle ground, if your not one of them your racist and that's just not right. I have noticed it getting worse for a while. The country voted tory, so we have to accept it and if we disagree make sensible arguments. Not spit at people or call them Nazis. The following article is worth a read. https://medium.com/@bestofthemail/i-was-upvoted-for-posting-nazi-propaganda-about-migrants-in-the-daily-mail-8996899810b4 I had a look. Again I am not talking about extreme people with a hatred of immigrants. I was talking more about abuse of people with a different political view, not issues like immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Based on a recent exchange I had with "taxman", I'd say the left are definitely the more abusive and prone to resorting to insults when they disagree. I believe he's enjoying a "holiday" as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Based on a recent exchange I had with "taxman", I'd say the left are definitely the more abusive and prone to resorting to insults when they disagree. I believe he's enjoying a "holiday" as a result. That's from your perspective - however I've had a number of exchanges with people on here (some of whom, I know to be the same person), where the other person has been on 'holiday'. This was because they were unable to discuss issues to do with race or sexuality without becoming offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Actually I try to see both sides and be as fair as possible, to the extent where I've supported right wing-minded posters on here when they were being attacked by lefties. I don't expect you to be nice to me Jonny so you can say what you want. oh right....I must've completely misconstrued this then The problem with rthe rght, and this is where the thickness comes into it, is a frequent inability to see things in anything other than binary terms. This then drives all kinds of fallacious argumentsYou are of course correct in what you say here but your inability to see how it applies equally to the left is myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLAR Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 That's from your perspective - however I've had a number of exchanges with people on here (some of whom, I know to be the same person), where the other person has been on 'holiday'. This was because they were unable to discuss issues to do with race or sexuality without becoming offensive. I find many of the opinions of the right to be offensive. It is their raison d'etre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) The left got too tied up with identity politics and took the votes of the WWC for granted. That's how they've ended up with Corbyn as leader, with no-one else as a viable candidate. I think the increasing preoccupation with identity politics of the left reflects changes in people's beliefs about themselves, and changes in legislation too. I guess people don't define themselves just as working class or upper class - but also in terms of their nationality, gender whether they are disabled etc. I think you're right that Labour took it's core vote for granted....But simply by ignoring other facets of people's identity won't bring people back.... ---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 22:05 ---------- I find many of the opinions of the right to be offensive. It is their raison d'etre. People should be allowed to express their opinions, that's their right in a free country - I think some people like / can't help but push the boundaries on a public forum.... I'd much rather have freedom of speech for some people to be offensive, than to have everyone, apparently, agree. Edited November 10, 2015 by Mister M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 oh right....I must've completely misconstrued this then You are of course correct in what you say here but your inability to see how it applies equally to the left is myopic. To be honest I don't care what you think you did. As for the binary thinking thing, its the cornerstone for right wing media campaigns. It is precisely what they want to tap into. Some food for thought http://articles.latimes.com/2007/sep/10/science/la-sci-politics10sep10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 To be honest I don't care what you think you did. As for the binary thinking thing, its the cornerstone for right wing media campaigns. It is precisely what they want to tap into. Some food for thought http://articles.latimes.com/2007/sep/10/science/la-sci-politics10sep10 *throws arms in air and gives up talking to brick wall* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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