Allen Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Only drove an automatic once.....didn't like it. I'd rather be in control. As for constantly turning off....that would really **** me off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Why will it? I mean by that logic any motor that stops and starts a lot will never last, but lift motors run forever more or less. Even my Meccano motor ran for a long time with a lot of abuse. The batteries used are AGM ones which can deliver the current needed and the ECU monitors the state of charge and stops the stop/start tech if they do get a little low. Turbos are usually cooled with a water jacket rather than the oil to stop heat problems, or they use air foil bearings which dont need oiling which is what mine has I beleive. They said all the same things about fuel injection in the early 1990's about how an injector couldnt open reliably that many times for any length of time, but it was never an issue... Are you suggesting that 'modern' starter motors and flywheels will last forever? (give or take) I use my car which ok, is an old car for getting back and forth to work each day. I maybe use the starter probably six times on any given day. A car (which is set to stop/start) maybe uses the starter 50 or more times (just a guess I'm afraid...it's dependant upon traffic and route etc). Logic would dictate that by the time I get to own a car with stop/start technology (say 10 years old)...It'll have taken for more of a hammering than a car with non-stop start technology. Or is my logic flawed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Are you suggesting that 'modern' starter motors and flywheels will last forever? (give or take) I use my car which ok, is an old car for getting back and forth to work each day. I maybe use the starter probably six times on any given day. A car (which is set to stop/start) maybe uses the starter 50 or more times (just a guess I'm afraid...it's dependant upon traffic and route etc). Logic would dictate that by the time I get to own a car with stop/start technology (say 10 years old)...It'll have taken for more of a hammering than a car with non-stop start technology. Or is my logic flawed? It isn't flawed. Another issue killing longevity is the new trend of miniturisation of engines - the smaller, the more efficient. But people still want a lot of horse power, so they fit them with turbos and other gadgets to get out most bang for your buck - working the smaller components a lot harder than they've ever done before. One has to wonder whether that will affect longevity, nobody can tell, yet, but family of mine who work in the car-lease trade state that the number of (ironically) VWs with this technology they have with dead engines is astonishingly high, they are all the 1.2/1.4 petrol and 1.6 diesel varieties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidorry Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Stop start cars switch off when you put it in neutral, keeping it in gear keeps it running. But soon wears out the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Are you suggesting that 'modern' starter motors and flywheels will last forever? (give or take) I use my car which ok, is an old car for getting back and forth to work each day. I maybe use the starter probably six times on any given day. A car (which is set to stop/start) maybe uses the starter 50 or more times (just a guess I'm afraid...it's dependant upon traffic and route etc). Logic would dictate that by the time I get to own a car with stop/start technology (say 10 years old)...It'll have taken for more of a hammering than a car with non-stop start technology. Or is my logic flawed? Car manufacturers are not going to design a vehicle for a specific number of starts - they will design if for a specified life in terms of hours. The components are uprated to deal with that - for example they use AGM batteries which will last a lot longer than a regular battery. The starters are a lot larger and hence less stressed than a normal one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Sat in traffic tonight on the way home I had a car next to me, and crawling up to a traffic island, must have 'started' it's engine about ten times in the space of less than a third of a mile...That must be incredible wear on the starter motor and flywheel...Not to mention strain on the battery. The thing is, this problem only arises when its out of warranty and the first owner has probably sold it, so its the poor second owner who has the problems. I've seen this in things like DPF systems, complex dash screen systems to name but two. Someone buys what they think is a bargain, but then has a big repair bill to face because they didn't read up on the technology or what to look out for when buying. Do these new stop-start systems use special starters, batteries and alternators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 The thing is, this problem only arises when its out of warranty and the first owner has probably sold it, so its the poor second owner who has the problems. I've seen this in things like DPF systems, complex dash screen systems to name but two. Someone buys what they think is a bargain, but then has a big repair bill to face because they didn't read up on the technology or what to look out for when buying. Do these new stop-start systems use special starters, batteries and alternators? I wouldn't have thought the principle in their use would be any different from old technology....But hey...I'm only surmising. Yes you're right...It's the second hand market that bothers me...I've never had a brand spanking new car in my life, that I actually owned...I've always paid cash for second hand cars, and as you (IMO) rightly say. That's where the problems start, and the escalating costs arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Standard Halfords 096 battery: £85 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-calcium-battery-hcb096-4-yr-guarantee Halfords Stop-Start 096 battery: £149 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-start-stop-agm-battery-096agm-4-yr-guarantee Can engines survive stop-start? So when it comes to durability and long life, all the bases relating to the starter gear itself should be covered, but the higher number of stop-start cycles lead to increased engine wear unless steps are taken to prevent it. “A normal car without automatic stop-start can be expected to go through up to 50,000 stop-start events during its lifetime,” says Gerhard Arnold, who is responsible for bearing design at Federal Mogul. “But with automatic stop-start being activated every time the car comes to a standstill, the figure rises dramatically, perhaps to as many as 500,000 stop start cycles over the engine’s life.” That’s a big jump and one that poses major challenges to the durability and life of the engine’s bearings. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/stop-start-long-term-impact-your-car-s-engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Standard Halfords 096 battery: £85 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-calcium-battery-hcb096-4-yr-guarantee Halfords Stop-Start 096 battery: £149 http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/halfords-start-stop-agm-battery-096agm-4-yr-guarantee http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/stop-start-long-term-impact-your-car-s-engine So it seems it 'is' a problem...Not to mention additional cost in terms of spares...Ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackydog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 It's the same with starters on a Mercedes A class, whole engine out job.. Heard this before, is it actually true or just some mechanic's exaggeration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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