Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 So it seems it 'is' a problem...Not to mention additional cost in terms of spares...Ugh! No it really isn't a problem. But if you read cherry picked quotes above then you'd think it is. The vehicles use different crank bearings and oils and are perfectly happy with the increased number of starts New technology is present for batteries - AGM provides the capacity and starting current. Yes they cost more, but not anywhere near as much as the saving on fuel you will make on them. Similarly with the starters - they work harder, so they are made more robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackydog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No it really isn't a problem. But if you read cherry picked quotes above then you'd think it is. The vehicles use different crank bearings and oils and are perfectly happy with the increased number of starts New technology is present for batteries - AGM provides the capacity and starting current. Yes they cost more, but not anywhere near as much as the saving on fuel you will make on them. Similarly with the starters - they work harder, so they are made more robust. Flywheel ring gear? It used to be the case that the engine settled at the same place when stopped so that part of the flywheel ring gear used to get most worn. I know pre-engaged starters stopped a lot of the wear but when the starter is used to this extent there has to be a weakest link somewhere surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 But soon wears out the clutch. How so? The clutch is doing no work if the car is in gear... ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 10:22 ---------- Do these new stop-start systems use special starters, batteries and alternators? yes they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 How so? The clutch is doing no work if the car is in gear. Clutch is doing a lot of work if in gear and car is stationary - I'd expect the release bearing to be loaded and getting hot because the clutch will be disengaged. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 10:25 ---------- Flywheel ring gear? It used to be the case that the engine settled at the same place when stopped so that part of the flywheel ring gear used to get most worn. I know pre-engaged starters stopped a lot of the wear but when the starter is used to this extent there has to be a weakest link somewhere surely? I've not seen a worn ring gear for a very long time - I think the last one I swapped was on a Capri. A lot of the new stop/start motors though are directly connected to the end of the crank from what I understand and are permanently engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackydog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Clutch is doing a lot of work if in gear and car is stationary - I'd expect the release bearing to be loaded and getting hot because the clutch will be disengaged. ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 10:25 ---------- I've not seen a worn ring gear for a very long time - I think the last one I swapped was on a Capri. A lot of the new stop/start motors though are directly connected to the end of the crank from what I understand and are permanently engaged. Ah right, didn't know that. Been a long time out of the trade now and only do bits and bobs on my own cars, which are older models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Heard this before, is it actually true or just some mechanic's exaggeration? I don't know about the Mercedes A class, but once upon a time, the starter motor was readily identifiable, and you could easily get at it, and change it in a matter of a few minutes...But I'm talking old school...Nowadays, there;s so much crammed into the engine compartment, with covers all over the place, you'd be had pushed to even find it on some cars, and if it's tucked away at the back of the engine compartment, it's not beyond the imagination that in order to get at it, is a major (and expensive) job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't know about the Mercedes A class, but once upon a time, the starter motor was readily identifiable, and you could easily get at it, and change it in a matter of a few minutes...But I'm talking old school...Nowadays, there;s so much crammed into the engine compartment, with covers all over the place, you'd be had pushed to even find it on some cars, and if it's tucked away at the back of the engine compartment, it's not beyond the imagination that in order to get at it, is a major (and expensive) job. I believe there are several cars which require an 'engine out' to change the starter, although I doubt that it'd be the case with these 'stopping' cars, where easy access would be a serious design consideration. However, I really don't understand the sense in this kind of stop-start malarkey. If people want to be so anal about saving the planet/better economy, they'd be a lot better off buying something like a Tesla which is state-of-the-art electric. Having said that, I guess quite a few would be perturbed by the carbon footprint of the batteries involved. The technology in these cars is pretty awesome though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I believe there are several cars which require an 'engine out' to change the starter, although I doubt that it'd be the case with these 'stopping' cars, where easy access would be a serious design consideration. However, I really don't understand the sense in this kind of stop-start malarkey. If people want to be so anal about saving the planet/better economy, they'd be a lot better off buying something like a Tesla which is state-of-the-art electric. Having said that, I guess quite a few would be perturbed by the carbon footprint of the batteries involved. The technology in these cars is pretty awesome though. That's just the point. The design consideration is such that the motor manufacturers don't want the average 'Joe Soap' to be able to tinker with them. They would much rather have you take it into a main dealer to be fixed...Regardless of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Clutch is doing a lot of work if in gear and car is stationary - I'd expect the release bearing to be loaded and getting hot because the clutch will be disengaged. In gear and stationary with the clutch depressed you mean? Otherwise you're either doing a burnout or stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidorry Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 In gear and stationary with the clutch depressed you mean? Otherwise you're either doing a burnout or stalling. If you are on an incline you have got to ride the clutch if you are in gear,thus,extensive clutch wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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