Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 That's just the point. The design consideration is such that the motor manufacturers don't want the average 'Joe Soap' to be able to tinker with them. They would much rather have you take it into a main dealer to be fixed...Regardless of the cost. IT's nothing to do with the fact that people demanded more space inside the cabin and so the engine bay got smaller... it's nothing to do with legislation demanding safe impact zones which constrains where components go... nothing to do with environmental legislation that requires low noise and the fitment of many sound deadening covers. No it's just a conspiracy amongst car makers. Ever tried working on a Wolseley land crab from the 1970's? They were cars that were impossible to find stuff on.... ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 11:41 ---------- In gear and stationary with the clutch depressed you mean? Otherwise you're either doing a burnout or stalling. Exactly. If the clutch is disengaged then the release bearing is doing a lot of work and it's not designed to take that amount of abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 If you are on an incline you have got to ride the clutch if you are in gear,thus,extensive clutch wear. Surely, an automatic does this all the time … my girlfriend's C3 doesn't roll back at a halt when uphill. I suppose this is a torque convertor, as opposed to a clutch, but ostensibly, they serve the same purpose. Having said that, the gearbox is the most reliable part of the entire car, designed as a sealed unit for no maintenance whatsoever (I believe the earlier models had an inspection/top-up hole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 IT's nothing to do with the fact that people demanded more space inside the cabin and so the engine bay got smaller... it's nothing to do with legislation demanding safe impact zones which constrains where components go... nothing to do with environmental legislation that requires low noise and the fitment of many sound deadening covers. No it's just a conspiracy amongst car makers. Ever tried working on a Wolseley land crab from the 1970's? They were cars that were impossible to find stuff on.... ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 11:41 ---------- Exactly. If the clutch is disengaged then the release bearing is doing a lot of work and it's not designed to take that amount of abuse. Ah...So it's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with there being a vested interest in forcing owners to have them serviced and repaired by main dealers...? It's pure coincidence that in order to comply with legislation the current engine tech is almost impossible for the average person to work on. Just a simple by-product of me wanting more space in my car. WOW...Do you work for VW, or Ford or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I knew I'd not be able to engage with you without you resorting to abuse and ad hominem attacks Pete. And a moderator too. Shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 If you are on an incline you have got to ride the clutch if you are in gear,thus,extensive clutch wear. I don't think anyone had mentioned being on an incline. But if you're on an incline in neutral then you've only got 1 option left, and with the engine off the brake assist will run out after a few taps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Ah...So it's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with there being a vested interest in forcing owners to have them serviced and repaired by main dealers...? It's pure coincidence that in order to comply with legislation the current engine tech is almost impossible for the average person to work on. Just a simple by-product of me wanting more space in my car. WOW...Do you work for VW, or Ford or something? To be honest Pete, and no disrespect, I just thing you need to upgrade your toolkit. Although different to the older engines, modern ones are actually simpler to work on. Throw away your inspection lamp and get a fault code reader. Bits simply unplug/unbolt taking much less time. Unless there's something pretty seriously wrong with the engine (snapped belt and ensuing nightmare), virtually anyone with a bit of common sense (and a fault code reader) can fix their car if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I knew I'd not be able to engage with you without you resorting to abuse and ad hominem attacks Pete. And a moderator too. Shame on you. Eh?...What on earth are you talking about?...All I pointed out was the fact you seem to be in complete denial that modern cars are not designed to be DIY friendly, and your comments are those I might expect from someone who works for the said company....What's wrong with that? Oh and being a moderator has nothing to do with the issue, as I've told you before on many occasions...Does being a mod remove any free thinking of my own?...Please! ---------- Post added 11-11-2015 at 12:32 ---------- To be honest Pete, and no disrespect, I just thing you need to upgrade your toolkit. Although different to the older engines, modern ones are actually simpler to work on. Throw away your inspection lamp and get a fault code reader. Bits simply unplug/unbolt taking much less time. Unless there's something pretty seriously wrong with the engine (snapped belt and ensuing nightmare), virtually anyone with a bit of common sense (and a fault code reader) can fix their car if they want. Well I guess you might be right in that I need to upgrade my toolkit. But the reality is, being my age now, I'm not that keen on getting down and dirty inside an engine... Incidentally, I've actually got a code reader, and I have permanent EM light on, on my dash, because it 'thinks' there's a problem with my emissions, but there isn't...It's actually telling me, I can't use generic parts to replace my exhaust, and I need a genuine manufacturers part. I had to have my entire exhaust replaced earlier on this year, and since it was replaced the light comes on...But it's been through an MOT shortly after it was fitted and there's nothing wrong with my emissions. So it sits there just smiling at me from the dash now...All the probes have been replaced...Everything. I was 'told' maybe it might fix it by having another genuine part fitted, but there's no guarantee....I might spend £400 ish, and still have the issue. So I don't subscribe to the notion that everything is easy to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euclid Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 motor and flywheel...Not to mention strain on the battery. By the time I get to buy a car with this technology, the starter will be knackered, the flywheel will be knackered and it will need a new battery. Wait for some tech-head to refute my thinking...hahaha Do these new stop-start systems use special starters, batteries and alternators? I own a Prius hybrid which uses the above technology,when in town the engine stops altogether and it runs on electric till the engine starts up...on its own..to regenerate the batteries...There really is no "starter" as such. The transmission contains a pair of electric motors, both of which are connected mechanically with the crankshaft of the engine. When you need to spin the engine (before it actually starts), the HV battery provides power to spin the motor(s), which spin the crank, eventually starting the engine. Normal starters have a solenoid, gear, and motor, and drive a ring gear on the flywheel. The Prius has no starter solenoid, and no ring gear -- because it has no flywheel. That's just the point. The design consideration is such that the motor manufacturers don't want the average 'Joe Soap' to be able to tinker with them. They would much rather have you take it into a main dealer to be fixed...Regardless of the cost. You've hit the nail on the head there Pete :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Eh?...What on earth are you talking about?...All I pointed out was the fact you seem to be in complete denial that modern cars are not designed to be DIY friendly, No I'm not. You couldn't be more wrong. You've made that assumption as it fits the strawman you are constructing. If you read my posts you have found that I gave you the reasons why cars ARE DIFFICULT TO WORK ON. "...people demanded more space inside the cabin and so the engine bay got smaller... .....legislation demanding safe impact zones which constrains where components go... .environmental legislation that required sound deadening covers" I've told you why they are difficult to work on. You cannot claim that I'm saying cars are easy to work on when I've just told you why they are not. So why do you take this view? For the usual reason - you want to make a strawman argument.... and your comments are those I might expect from someone who works for the said company....What's wrong with that? and accuse me of working for the makers and being a shill for them. That's an ad hominem attack Pete. That's why I rarely debate with you - because every time, EVERY time you have asked a question, you are not asking a question. You are wanting someone to validate what you think the answer is. You don't care what the truth is. You just want someone to say that your version of the truth is right. Oh and being a moderator has nothing to do with the issue, as I've told you before on many occasions...Does being a mod remove any free thinking of my own?...Please You are a moderator and should be rightly held to higher standards than the regular forum users. That doesn't mean you cannot have "free thinking" no matter how erroneous it may be. It does mean that you shouldn't engage in ad hominem attacks, and you shouldn't misrepresent people because y'know you are a moderator and people might assume you know what you are talking about. So I don't subscribe to the notion that everything is easy to fix. No one, least of all me, is asking you to.... Edited November 11, 2015 by Obelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 That's why I rarely debate with you - because every time, EVERY time you have asked a question, you are not asking a question. You are wanting someone to validate what you think the answer is. You don't care what the truth is. You just want someone to say that your version of the truth is right. .. This goes right back to the "perpetual motion" thread ages ago..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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