runningman1 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 What sort of 'sensible people' are going to be 'driven towards extremism'? That seems to be a contradiction of terms. People who feel ostracised by a society and government that is blaming them for something that isn't their fault. Iqbal from the local corner shop is no more responsible for the events in Paris than you are for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. By punishing g Iqbal you would be pushing him to the arms of out enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousedd Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) What sort of 'sensible people' are going to be 'driven towards extremism'? That seems to be a contradiction of terms. the extremists already hold meetings if this report is accurate (lets hope the security services do a better job of monitoring them than the French), still internment is a bad idea :- http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/14/exclusive-as-paris-burned-uk-islamists-told-muslims-to-struggle-for-islamic-state-in-unprecedented-islamic-show-of-force/ Edited November 15, 2015 by dangerousedd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That isn't enough. You need to stop producing them. The extremists aren't freaks of nature but freaks of nurture. The cultural and religious beliefs that Muslims propagate and perpetuate disproportionately creates violent extremists and that is unacceptable. By reform I mean the 'mainstream' putting distance between themselves and the extremist camp. The beliefs Muslims currently preach and teach are the same as those of the extremists. The main difference being that the mainstream limited their propagating activity to preaching and teaching offspring whilst the extremists seek to propagate by imposing murderous violence on all and sundry. The 'mainstream' needs to tone it all down and move further away from the extremist camp to prevent so many straying into it. The backlash will take different forms. Firstly, there is the political backlash... and it has already started. For years people have been saying they are uncomfortable with the level of immigration and polls consistently show most people (around 75% in the UK) want it reduced. Despite that it has increased and with it has come financial, social, criminal and terrorist problems, which obviously hasn't done much for multicultural relations. This is causing a backlash against the the sort of liberal politics that has given us these problems and as such nationalism and far right politics are gaining support. In the UK, UKIP has grown to the extent that it won the last European election, in France the the NF are now the biggest party as are the Swedish Democrats in Sweden. In Poland and Switzerland they recently elected anti-immigration parties into power and the Progress Party in Norway is getting bigger and bigger. In Germany they have PEGIDA growing and attacks against migrants increasing rapidly. It is a pattern that can be seen across Europe and the tempo increases with every attack that is effectively the by-product of Muslim immigration. If all this 'doesn't bother you' then you are a fool because it should be of huge concern to you and everyone else. Secondly, the **** bashing of the 70's and 80's that you lived through will start to reappear. The racists will kick it off and Muslims will fight back. As soon as that happens it is inevitable that innocent people get caught up in it, it escalates quickly and fuels the political backlash. Violence will not only alienate Muslims but non-Muslims too and drive huge wedge between communities. I dread to think where it will take us. Thinking that what happened in Germany in the 1930's and in the Balkans in the 1990's cannot happen again is dangerous and naive. We are the same species and it only takes the right conditions for the animal within to out... it feels like the conditions are becoming right. I am sure it is most touching that your non-Muslim friends didn't blame you or your religion for the Paris attacks. It doesn't change what is happening. It also doesn't mean their position will not change if conflict starts... look how friends and neighbours turned on each other during the Balkans conflict. You are taking false comfort from it. I offer a warning of what I think is going to happen and what is needed to stop it. I don't do that because I want the far right taking over Europe but because I don't. If Muslims, encouraged by blinkered liberals, fail to heed the warning then what more can I do? What an excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The 'mainstream' needs to tone it all down and move further away from the extremist camp to prevent so many straying into it. Tone what down exactly? ---------- Post added 15-11-2015 at 12:38 ---------- The beliefs Muslims currently preach and teach are the same as those of the extremists... what more can I do? You could stop propagating lies like this for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Looks like someone thinks setting fire to the migrant camps in Calais is the answer= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/calais-migrant-camp-fire-france-6830330 This is really going to break the cycle of violence isn't it? The article also mentions that a koran was set on fire last week in calais by far rightextremist.. Perspective. 150 innocents kids were massacred by people that worship that book. You're most likely more upset about the book being burnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASGOWOODS Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I guess this is where we need the full cooperation and support of the Muslim community. It is closed off really to outsiders. We don't understand how the community functions and there is no simple way of getting involved. The community will know who the returnees are and they have a duty to help prevent a repeat of the Paris attacks. There will be others who have not been to Syria who could also pose a significant threat so the community needs to be dealing with them too. We don't need to start locking people up. We need to get smarter. ---------- Post added 15-11-2015 at 11:42 ---------- Indeed. What do people think will happen if you put the 400 worst extremists in a building together? It'd be like a finishing school for terrorists. We can see what happens already in prisons with radicalisation. Not a lot if they're in solitary confinement with no contact with each other ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Tone what down exactly? The ideas that women are less important than men and should be hidden away, that homosexuality is a crime and generally all the violent crap in the Koran about killing non-believers. I think they need to update the manual for the 21st century. You could stop propagating lies like this for starters. The extremists take the words of the Koran literally whilst most choose to translate it to avoid the obligation to confront and kill non-believers. What other fundamental difference do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lottiecass Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Tone what down exactly? ---------- Post added 15-11-2015 at 12:38 ---------- You could stop propagating lies like this for starters. Have IS a different koran than moderate muslims? So does he lie? It's down to how it's followed that's the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybaby Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 They attacked our freedoms Listening to music Enjoying a meal & Drink Watching a football match Satire Why? What do they want? How do you change such a warped mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Have IS a different koran than moderate muslims? So does he lie? It's down to how it's followed that's the thing. Muslims don't generally make up the Quranic interpretation on an individual basis. The interpretation is steered by the Hadith. Find out which bits of the Hadith they endorse and you can probably tell what sect they belong to and whether they're compatible with western culture. There are various respected scholarly Muslim organisations advising Muslims what parts of the Hadith are to be given what credibility. Anybody following this advice is probably pretty sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts