Shootings and explosions in Paris

[JFKvsNixon]

The reference to the iRA killing more and we not responding..... How could we there wasn't social media back then. And it's social media that's fueling ISIS.

 

So are you saying it's people scaremongering on threads like this that's helping? If so I agree.

[Harrystottle]

Adam Curtis is fantastic documentary maker isn't he, I think that I've got his documentaries on a hard drive somewhere.

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 09:30 ----------

 

 

So you suggest that we jump out of the frying pan straight into the fire?

 

I think that it would be prudent to examine the possibilities of using, at least in part, alternative suppliers.

[exxon]

I don't think it's a case of being scared as such.

We all, by human instinct have a desire to survive. But human instinct also has a rather dark savage side which thankfully we've learnt to suppress as we've evolved. I'm not going type what would be on my mind though, if I were the father of one of the poor victims in Paris.

 

.....the law of the land would be no deterrent.

 

ISIS rely so much on the power of media, without that they're nothing. Pathetic really aren't they.

 

Maybe we should switch off and tell them to go gather some goats!!

 

Their ideology is to kill non believers. But we outnumber them and we have better weapons.

Putin has the right approach and it seems the French have now caught up. The terrorists will continue to try to kill us whenever they get the chance, but we can kill them a lot faster than they can kill us. We need to speed up the rate at which we kill them. This we can do by allocating more to the task. I doubt ISIS can up the rate that they kill us because it is their only priority. They are already doing it as fast as they can.

If ISIS don't have the land to call Islamic State their purpose is over. Our satellites know where they are. We just need to stop pussy footing around.

[Halibut]

Their ideology is to kill non believers. But we outnumber them and we have better weapons.

Putin has the right approach and it seems the French have now caught up. The terrorists will continue to try to kill us whenever they get the chance, but we can kill them a lot faster than they can kill us. We need to speed up the rate at which we kill them. This we can do by allocating more to the task. I doubt ISIS can up the rate that they kill us because it is their only priority. They are already doing it as fast as they can.

If ISIS don't have the land to call Islamic State their purpose is over. Our satellites know where they are. We just need to stop pussy footing around.

 

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried - what you describe is a recipe for carnage on a worldwide scale.

 

This is not a war that can be won by violence. It can only be won by changing hearts and minds and long term political solutions.

[milquetoast1]

My dad's just sent me a link to an Excellent article by Mohammed Amin here:

 

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/11/mohammed-amin-it-is-not-enough-for-muslim-organisations-simply-to-condemn-terrorism.html

 

I have a simple challenge for Muslim organisations and Muslim leaders.

 

What are you doing to:

 

Encourage British Muslims to join the police, the armed forces and the security services?

 

Teach young Muslims to treat Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists etc as full equal members of society entitled to exactly the same level of respect as given to fellow Muslims?

 

Teach young Muslims that religious practice is a matter between the individual and God, and no Muslim has the right to denounce another for being “insufficiently Muslim” or worse still to contend that someone who self-describes as a Muslim is outside the religion? (This is known as “takfir”, is widely practised by ISIL and provides their religious justification for killing other people who self-describe as Muslims.)

 

Respect people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender as full equal members of society?

 

Encourage British Muslims to join non-religiously based civil society organisations such as mainstream political parties, The National Trust, The Women’s Institute etc. so that they associate regularly with people of all religious backgrounds rather than spending all their free time with other Muslims?

 

Teach young Muslims that Britain is a wonderful country in which to be a Muslim and that Britain is not at war with Islam or with Muslims?

 

Some of these points have been made often by my secular Muslim dad, so the article was music to him. He's repeatedly been told that he's the wrong sort of Muslim, it's why we are in the UK even.

 

As for the last point, every time people complain that Israel is supremely evil whilst simultaneously ignoring slaves in the Sudan, Russian occupation of Ukraine, political prisoners in North Korea, Chinese oppression in Tibet, genocidal displacement of populations in Western Sahara or West Papua, it feeds the ISIL narrative that there is a war against Muslims. Every time people specify the religion of victims of wars, if they happen to be Muslims, it feeds the ISIL narrative that there is a war against Muslims.

[JFKvsNixon]

Their ideology is to kill non believers. But we outnumber them and we have better weapons.

Putin has the right approach and it seems the French have now caught up. The terrorists will continue to try to kill us whenever they get the chance, but we can kill them a lot faster than they can kill us. We need to speed up the rate at which we kill them. This we can do by allocating more to the task. I doubt ISIS can up the rate that they kill us because it is their only priority. They are already doing it as fast as they can.

If ISIS don't have the land to call Islamic State their purpose is over. Our satellites know where they are. We just need to stop pussy footing around.

 

Is Putin any closer to winning his war with Islamic extremists as he was when he first came to power?

[I1L2T3]

My dad's just sent me a link to an Excellent article by Mohammed Amin here:

 

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/11/mohammed-amin-it-is-not-enough-for-muslim-organisations-simply-to-condemn-terrorism.html

 

 

 

Some of these points have been made often by my secular Muslim dad, so the article was music to him. He's repeatedly been told that he's the wrong sort of Muslim, it's why we are in the UK even.

 

As for the last point, every time people complain that Israel is supremely evil whilst simultaneously ignoring slaves in the Sudan, Russian occupation of Ukraine, political prisoners in North Korea, Chinese oppression in Tibet, genocidal displacement of populations in Western Sahara or West Papua, it feeds the ISIL narrative that there is a war against Muslims. Every time people specify the religion of victims of wars, if they happen to be Muslims, it feeds the ISIL narrative that there is a war against Muslims.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

It's a two way thing though. Yes we need Muslims to buy into being part of British society but we also need to make it a better society for all of us. No one group should be targeted or excluded but we should all be concerned that we are increasingly looking likely to go down that route.

[tinfoilhat]

I haven't watched the 2 hr 20 version, but I will.

 

There is a theme in the build up that I agree with. Which is that we the public don't get any explanations any more. Not from politicians, not from the media.

 

It is all "These are the bad guys. This is what is happening today in the middle east" cue shots of people loosing off rounds at each other.

 

But there is never any explanation of WHY it is happening. Just here it is, shut up, no questions please.

 

I think we deserve better. Politicians have always been much the same, but at one time our TV and papers used to be quite good at investigative journalism, and it's about time they re-learned that particular skill.

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 09:00 ----------

 

We buy it from Vlad the impaler, Czar of Russia? They have plenty. So does the US.

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 09:02 ----------

 

 

People seem to forget this. The IRA killed more people and did more damage than the Islamists have managed so far, but we didn't all succumb to the vapours then, and we shouldn't now.

 

Good post that. There has been a few articles on the bbc website over the past few years basically saying "oooh we shouldn't have done that" or "the west shouldn't have done this, now look what's happened" but precious little on what we should do. Lots of hand wringing at the moment and turning everything into the French tricolour. Lovely sentiment but isn't going to solve much.

 

Libya, on the face of it to me, seemed like a half decent thing to get lightly involved in at the time until the rebels turned to Muslim brotherhood and/or AQ and/or ISIS. Syria is the same only writ far bigger. It was the Free Syrian Army the west thought they were helping not a bunch of imported Islamist nutters. It's worth remembering that at the start the UN were on the ground in Alepo observing and trying to create safe areas. They didn't last a week. The choice we are left with is the let thousands of people get beheaded, gassed, starved, or blown up by drones. There isn't a choice that won't blow back on us.

 

As regards to energy there are plenty of places we can get our oil with resulting to buying it from Russia or the Middle East. We should be self sufficient as a country. We're as dependent on oil to make the country work as we were back in the 70s.

 

Why?

[Harrystottle]

It's a two way thing though. Yes we need Muslims to buy into being part of British society but we also need to make it a better society for all of us. No one group should be targeted or excluded but we should all be concerned that we are increasingly looking likely to go down that route.

 

True enough. There are parts of the majority community who do not want to integrate.

[tinfoilhat]

Thanks for posting this.

 

It's a two way thing though. Yes we need Muslims to buy into being part of British society but we also need to make it a better society for all of us. No one group should be targeted or excluded but we should all be concerned that we are increasingly looking likely to go down that route.

 

National service then maybe? We've loads of foreigners serving in our armed forces voluntarily with many different faiths.