999tigger Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Where did I say they want to talk. Obviously they don't right now. Don't people get it? They want us to bomb them. They want to be hated and they want to die. When we do it we hand them on a plate all the propaganda they need This is a very important point to make some important decisions about how this is going to be approached. Yes military action and containment is right but bombs on their own, while they will sate some of the anger and make people feel better, are not going to solve or fix anything. Your the one pointing out about organisations talking. We are just meant to wait for them till they decide they want to talk, but in the mean time they cna continue expanding as well as attacking the west? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Even if ISIL doesn't get wiped, I suspect they'll eventually implode anyway. There'll be somebody/some group within who'll want to be 'top dog', and there'll be others with the same aspirations..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Your the one pointing out about organisations talking. We are just meant to wait for them till they decide they want to talk, but in the mean time they cna continue expanding as well as attacking the west? Where have I said we should wait till they're ready. I said I support military intervention and containment. What I'm arguing for is a more considered and planned approach bringing in the right forces, and making sure we work together with the Russians, Iranians, Kurds or whoever we need on side. Eventually they will talk though ---------- Post added 18-11-2015 at 23:17 ---------- Even if ISIL doesn't get wiped, I suspect they'll eventually implode anyway. There'll be somebody/some group within who'll want to be 'top dog', and there'll be others with the same aspirations..... They already have their ultimate prize really: a caliphate When it comes down to the crunch, when it comes to the point where they risk losing their prize then they will try to reason. Guaranteed The Taliban were publicly stoning and beheading people. Five years later they were sat round the negotiating table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 No mate, I'm absolutely right. They were catholic nationalist terrorists. Please don't make yourself look an idiot by arguing otherwise. They bombed us repeatedly in the 70s, 80s and 90s No your wrong, he's right. Religion had minimal bearing on what the IRA wanted. First and foremost they were political terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvp82 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Don't seem to recall Al-Qaeda inviting us round for tea and biscuits for a chinwag to sort things out. Fact is no matter what we do, bomb them or not, IS will carry on trying to cause terror across Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLAR Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 ISIS is different..a death cult that can only be stopped by being stepped on, You are correct. The stepping needs to be done by many different feet, though. UK feet. French feet. American feet. Lebanese feet. Iranian feet. Russian feet. Have you got the hang of my argument yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 No your wrong, he's right. Religion had minimal bearing on what the IRA wanted. First and foremost they were political terrorists. I don't think that is true. The sectarian tension in Northern Ireland is very real and religion plays a massive part in it, with communities identifying with, and supporting their respective paramilitary organisations. That said, maybe ISIS are political terrorists. Every Muslim I've discussed them with does not identify with their brand of Islam. What's left after that? ---------- Post added 19-11-2015 at 00:05 ---------- The stepping needs to be done by many different feet, though. UK feet. French feet. American feet. Lebanese feet. Iranian feet. Russian feet. Have you got the hang of my argument yet? I agree with this. It's going to have to be an alliance we could never have imagined. Iran, Russia, Kurds, China, the West. And we might have to accept that we are only going to be playing a minor role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcharlie Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I think - obviously none of us really know anything here.....we're all just speculating. I do often wonder if the bombing is nothing more than to show western citizens that out leaders will stand and fight. But I also think, behind the curtains GCHQ, Mi6 and a whole host of other specialised intelligence units are working and gathering far far more information than we could ever imagine. The very fact that ISIS "need" modern digital social media and news media to send out their propaganda is actually our blessing. Modern technology will be ISIS downfall. It's simply unfathomable to assume that such outdated beliefs in the modern 21st century will be allowed to flourish and dominate our western culture. The world has evolved and moved on, these fanatics don't stand a chance in hell of actually changing anything, plus they don't have the capacity to adapt.....a dying breed indeed. Yes more lives will undoubtably be lost.......but they will never ever win!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) You are using a silly edge case and presenting it as the norm and therefore something society should base policy on. It wasn't a "silly edge case" you patronizing idiot. A claim was made, the claim was wrong..as proven and on record. I suggested nothing as regards policy, the "norm" or what society should base it on..you just invented that premise...which are additional lies. Bigots tend not to listen and retaliate with terms such as "Muslimy" or "let's bomb it into a carpark" ..it's as much as the walnut that stands in as a brain allows them. Regardless of whether it's one person or a nation you retaliate against, you use the rule of law, national or international..otherwise what's the freeking point, unless you support illegal acts regardless of who has you soiling your pants? Edited November 19, 2015 by cassity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The IRA would have stopped before they started if we'd given all of ireland independence rather than just most of it. Admittedly you'd have different sorts of terrorism as a result but it would have been Dublin's problem. Against the wishes of the clear majority of the people of Northern Ireland. Heard of democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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