The work capability assessment should be declared “unfit” to work.

[sgtkate]

That sounds highly implausible.

If you want to convince anybody of that, I suspect you'll need numbers.

 

It was more an alternative point of view. I did put the words 'I doubt' in there to give an idea of my opinion of what I was posting

[unbeliever]

It was more an alternative point of view. I did put the words 'I doubt' in there to give an idea of my opinion of what I was posting

 

It's a valid thought.

It must be possible to work it out.

 

Disability benefits must add up to tens of thousands of pounds per claimant per year. Each claimant claiming typically for decades. It's hard to see how they could spend hundreds of thousands per applicant on the assessments plus appeals process.

[sgtkate]

It will be a mixture of both. 2008 was when ESA was introduced to consolidate some benefits including incapacity and IS, but when the coallition gained power they changed the test. the whole thing has been pretty controversial with the new test, but Also ATOS who carried out the test. they were subsequently sacked and its now a company called Maximus.

 

Last summer there was a backlog of 600,000-700,000 cases yet to be dealt with. there will be new claims as well.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/08/fitness-to-work-assessment-backlog-maximus-health-services-atos

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 15:27 ----------

 

 

 

the difference is that once an appeal is heard, then thats it, whereas a claim that goes through is going to be for however long the disability lasts.

 

To me it is appalling to have people left in limbo for so long. If they are losing their income wrongly or rightly, they should surely get an outcome ASAP so they can start to make adjustments to their lives. Having to wait months and months for a final decision must be horrendous and anyone going this has my sympathy.

 

Of course there needs to be a way to help people back into work where they can, but this just doesn't seem to be the 'right' way. <brain dump, expecting to get ripped apart! >More support for employers, perhaps NI or tax breaks for employers who hire disabled workers, more funding into making work places disabled friendly, more money to train/retrain people into jobs they can do such as computer based work for people with mobility issues, perhaps fund homebased working if appropriate, then if there are still people who are unable to work after all that has been done they are likely legit.</brain dump>

 

It's all great saying to people, right we are pulling your money as you can work, if there are no jobs suitable for them to go to or employers unwilling to hire them once they come into the interview in a wheelchair. And that must happen unofficially. A lot.

[999tigger]

To me it is appalling to have people left in limbo for so long. If they are losing their income wrongly or rightly, they should surely get an outcome ASAP so they can start to make adjustments to their lives. Having to wait months and months for a final decision must be horrendous and anyone going this has my sympathy.

 

 

Controversial test created by government, then inadequately administered by ATOS. It was obviously too much and it ended in a big mess. They do get an income equivalent to JSA. The reason they have to wait is inadequate resources @ ATOS and then by the DWP and then geting a tribunal is also a long wait. 58% successful appeal rate is crazily high.

[ez8004]

We definitely CANNOT afford to keep on giving people benefits just because they don't feel like working. The councils are underfunded, so are other public services like the police and especially the NHS. Getting together enough money to meet the commitment of 2% of GDP for defence spending is also a stretch and that includes the Trident replacement. These are things I would want the government to spend money on and cut the welfare / benefits which I am glad the Tories are going to implement. There needs to be a larger parity between people who work and people who don't otherwise there will never be enough of an incentive to work.

[I1L2T3]

Realistically not everybody can work. Beveridge in the 40s believed that 97-98% employment indicated full employment, taking into account the 2-3% who could not work or were not suitable for work.

 

In modern times it seems that that figure is around 5%, i.e. we can expect up to 95% of the workforce to be employed and perhaps 5% just not suitable, for whatever reason.

 

In a civilised society we cannot just let those 5% exist without any support. The consequences of doing so would be bad for society as a whole. We must tacitly accept that a proportion of the workforce just aren't going to go out to work, and we must be prepared to fund that.

 

It's good for the rest of us anyway, the ones who can work. If we reached 100% employment then workers would start asking for increased pay and in some sectors might be able to demand whatever they wanted - so much work would be available they could easily just walk into other jobs. This would lead to increased inflation. Basically, a mild scarcity of jobs keeps employers in the driving seat regarding wage inflation and that helps controls inflation in the wider economy.

[RonJeremy]

The government has to keep a lid on it on behalf of the taxpayers. Otherwise there would be even more people on the sick getting a better wage than many who work - just for sitting doing nothing all day.

[I1L2T3]

The government has to keep a lid on it on behalf of the taxpayers. Otherwise there would be even more people on the sick getting a better wage than many who work - just for sitting doing nothing all day.

 

I agree. The Tories are right when they say that work must be seen to pay. I'm dubious about their techniques but the sentiment is correct.

[onewheeldave]

If the government are going to provide financial assistance to people, then I believe it has a right to assess whether they are eligible for that assistance. I don’t personally see assessing them as bullying.

 

The government has a obligation to treat mentally ill patients with the respect and decency they are legally entitled to.

 

That means any assessments need to be done by people who are capable and properly trained to deal with the diverse needs of mentally ill people.

 

---------- Post added 20-11-2015 at 22:36 ----------

 

If you hadnt noticed we are running a massive deficit. Define what you mean by not feel like working. Many people dont like it but they do work so they can earn a living. The country is only able to fund itself by people working.

 

Basically some people cannot work. Many of them are in contact with various mental health professionals/occupational therapists etc, with reports by medical professionals who have genuine long term knowledge of said patients and their requirements/issues.

 

Those reports should be soley sufficient to establish the ability or otherwise, of the patients, to work.

 

 

======================

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2014/10/21/uk-welfare-reform-deaths-updated-list-october-21st-2014/

 

list of welfare reform deaths- many of them suicides after having their benefits cut, and thus, facing loss of their homes, pets and a future where the only 3 options are find a job (when you cannot work), be homeless or take their own life.

Edited November 20, 2015 by onewheeldave

[rollwithit]

El Nino was only building up there number of posts so they could PM.

Playing a bit of devils advocate in the process.