The work capability assessment should be declared “unfit” to work.

[psynuk]

The moral of this story is that those who say no to contribution to a product do not deserve to enjoy the product: "if any would not work, neither should he eat.

 

It's not really comparable tho is it.

As the parable is set in a world that doesn't have the legal constraints and ownership that prevent someone who doesn't want to work for money to work for simple survival.

Furthermore were not prepared as a society to tolerate the outcomes that lack of money creates, in fact we positively work to ensure that money must be used in practically all situations relating to survival.

Which leads to the perverse balance of wealth we have. Which unfortunately makes El Nino's suggestion sound unfair and unthinkable when really it's not and should actually be the desired and strived for state of affairs.

[dangerousedd]

I'm sure a lot of people with disabilities could work if given the right support but who's going to employ somebody with a severe disability where they need a full time PA when they can employ an able bodied person unless the government gives them big incentive payments to do so?

 

even then some may not be able to work due to the amount of pain they have and the medical care they may need daily.

[iansheff]

And quite a lot of people with disabilities had jobs till Dave decided to close the Remploy factories saying there were jobs out there for the employees.

[dangerousedd]

And quite a lot of people with disabilities had jobs till Dave decided to close the Remploy factories saying there were jobs out there for the employees.

 

was terrible that they were closed down, people seemed to like working there.

[ECCOnoob]

I was listening about this on radio 4 the other day,there was a guy who had something to do with these tests,he was talking about people who can't work because of incontinence,he was saying there is four levels of incontinence ranging from a bit to complete incontinence, apparently if you are just a bit leaky and you can take a change of clothes to work you have to work. what employer is going to put up with someone disappearing to change their clothes every so often,if you are unable to get to the toilet without help and your working environment can not be adapted to your needs then you maybe exempt from work

 

Quite a significant number of employers you will find. Its called making "Reasonable Adjustments" as they are compelled to do under the Disability Discrimination Act.

 

There is a whole spectrum of difference between someone who may need to wear protective pads and/or change their clothing a couple of times a day and people who literally cannot leave the house within fear of having an accident repeatedly.

 

SOME of those people may well be able to work and having a broad brush approach of ALL incontinent people are incapable of work is just as bad as saying ALL incontinent people can manage to work.

 

That's the whole point of these assessments.

 

I have no doubt that some of the tone and wording of questions may well be stressful and degrading to someone with a long term illness. On the flip side however, when someone is potentially being given thousands of thousands of taxpayer monies each year because they "cant work" despite the fact its proven they can do SOME work, as far as im concerned its questioning that needs to be asked.

 

---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 17:51 ----------

 

was terrible that they were closed down, people seemed to like working there.

 

Remploy factories may no longer be there as they were running at a loss. Funnily enough businesses that run at a LOSS close down.

 

For those who ex workers who WANT to carry on working they will be more than aware that Remploy as an organisation is still ongoing. Its still finding jobs for those disabled worker in other companies to this day. There are also specialist advisors put into the DWP and Jobcentres immediately following.

 

There are still opportunities out there for those who want them. Its just more effort than just sitting on ones behind blaming the government though.

[davyboy]

The moral of this story is that those who say no to contribution to a product do not deserve to enjoy the product: "if any would not work, neither should he eat.

 

It's not really comparable tho is it.

As the parable is set in a world that doesn't have the legal constraints and ownership that prevent someone who doesn't want to work for money to work for simple survival.

Furthermore were not prepared as a society to tolerate the outcomes that lack of money creates, in fact we positively work to ensure that money must be used in practically all situations relating to survival.

Which leads to the perverse balance of wealth we have. Which unfortunately makes El Nino's suggestion sound unfair and unthinkable when really it's not and should actually be the desired and strived for state of affairs.

 

El Nino wrote:

People are entitled to a basic standard of living without having to work.

 

He didn't mention FOR money

His suggestion is unfair and in a modern society unachievable.

Why should anyone that WON'T work enjoy the benefits provided by those that do?

Those that CAN'T work should be helped by the state to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

What that standard is is open to discussion.

Hence my reference to the little red hen.

[onewheeldave]

We definitely CANNOT afford to keep on giving people benefits just because they don't feel like working.

 

It's good that we don't then.

 

Do you think it's OK to deny benefits to people who can't work, as in this list of deaths and suicides after benefit withdrawals.-

 

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2014/10/21/uk-welfare-reform-deaths-updated-list-october-21st-2014/

 

have a run through the list and pick out the ones who deserved the benefit withdrawal as they "ust because they don't feel like working".

 

As I must have posted this link 5+ times and, despite the zeal for getting opinions out on the subject, no-one has ever actually responded with a reply/comment.

 

So here's a select few case from it-

 

Mark Wood, 44. Found fit for work by Atos, against his Doctors advice and assertions that he had complex mental health problems. Starved to death after benefits stopped, weighing only 5st 8lb when he died.

 

Karen Sherlock, 44. Multiple health issues. Found fit for work by Atos and denied benefits. Fought a long battle to get placed into the support group of ESA. Karen died the following month of a heart attack

 

Edward Jacques, 47 years old and suffering from HIV and Hepatitis C. Edward had a history of severe depression and self-harm. He took a fatal overdose after Atos found him fit for work and stopped his benefits.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 00:08 ----------

 

worth mentioning, that one reason many autistic people cannot work is that acquiring work needs going through processes that are difficult or impossible for them to engage in.

 

It's a modern thing- decades ago there was a lot more work available that didn't require cvs and complex application forms. Now it's virtually impossible to find work without going through series of requirements that many autistic people simply cannot endure.

[psynuk]

His suggestion is unfair and in a modern society unachievable.

Why should anyone that WON'T work enjoy the benefits provided by those that do?

 

is it really though?

Are we so short of provisions we couldn't feed/lookafter a few thousand lazy feckless?

[Annie Bynnol]

 

 

worth mentioning, that one reason many autistic people cannot work is that acquiring work needs going through processes that are difficult or impossible for them to engage in.

 

It's a modern thing- decades ago there was a lot more work available that didn't require cvs and complex application forms. Now it's virtually impossible to find work without going through series of requirements that many autistic people simply cannot endure.

 

Totally agree.

[onewheeldave]

Totally agree.

 

Thank you. I'm actually in that position myself- totally capable of work (I've set up and run successful community projects and courses) but cannot deal with the beuarocracy, forms and delays that are now necessary to do so.

 

It's a complete waste- not only in terms of potential valuable community projects that could be running, but aren't, but, also in terms of my own mental health, which is diminishing day-by-day.

 

Doing the work I know I can do, and have proven I can do, is very good for keeping me away from the worst effects of the depression that I've suffered most of my life.

 

And all that's on offer is more endless beaurocratic farces and delays, to acquire a 'personal assistant' which, if it happened, would solve the problem- but, engaging with it is so f***ing frustrating that it's unlikely to happen.

 

10 years ago, it was possible to arrange work by simple communication with actual human beings- now that is impossible, without a precursor of forms and procedures which are medically known to be either very difficult, or, impossible , for autistic people to go through.

 

No wonder that studies have shown that high-functioning autistics are 9 times more likely than neurotypicals, to engage in serious suicidal planning. I'm certainly going to get out if things continue to decline in this way (and yes, I am receiving appropriate medical attention on that, however, in a sick twist of fate, it turns out that the mental health services are also innacessible, for much the same reasons, plus, the service is crippled and not-fit-for-purpose; as agreed with by many of the people on the front line administering it.)