Eric Arthur Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Ok, GP Reg's were on strike. Semantics over, it's still a pay dispute. Edited January 17, 2016 by Eric Arthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes, we do not wish to be paid less for doing more than we do now, with less protection for our patients safety. The current offer from the government includes a pay protection clause, so those who will be paid less under the new contract will be protected (ie paid the same) for a few years so long as they stay in the same job and some other limitations. But those coming in behind us will be paid less for doing the same job, if this wasn't true there would be no need for the pay protection clause. We are one profession, we will not sell out those coming into the job behind us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningman1 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes, we do not wish to be paid less for doing more than we do now, with less protection for our patients safety. The current offer from the government includes a pay protection clause, so those who will be paid less under the new contract will be protected (ie paid the same) for a few years so long as they stay in the same job and some other limitations. But those coming in behind us will be paid less for doing the same job, if this wasn't true there would be no need for the pay protection clause. We are one profession, we will not sell out those coming into the job behind us. There have been claims made that upwards of 80% of doctors will see their take home pay increase and that it is only the overtime lovers (every job has them) that will lose out. What is your opinion on this? Had you been on the new contract for the last 6 months, have you worked out exactly the difference in money that you would have earned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) There is no such thing as overtime for a junior doctor. We cannot choose to work extra hours, we work what we are rota'ed to work and that is all. We have no say over our rota - it is decided for us. The only overtime we work is because we cannot physically leave a patient because they are too sick for you to simply walk away. This is unpaid. I calculated my pay as best I could with the information given in the proposed offer. As a 5 year qualified anaesthetist working a high proportion of rota'ed out of hours work (there always has to be one of us available 24/7 to provide emergency anaesthesia) my pay would reduce by 13% - with no change in hours worked. Edited January 17, 2016 by scrappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Of course it is. The overtime rate comes into effect when you work over a set number of hours, not for working on a Saturday at 9pm. So it is disingenuous to suggest that the dispute is about overtime rates of pay. As is the maximum number of hours that they are allowed to work, which means they work fewer hours and get paid for the hours that they work, not the hours that they used to work. It is a pay dispute. They want a pay rise. Once again you are being disingenuous, the junior doctors want to continue to get paid the same hourly rates that their current contract offers. You're either not understanding their argument or you are trying to deceive people, which is it? ---------- Post added 17-01-2016 at 14:42 ---------- There have been claims made that upwards of 80% of doctors will see their take home pay increase and that it is only the overtime lovers (every job has them) that will lose out. What is your opinion on this? Had you been on the new contract for the last 6 months, have you worked out exactly the difference in money that you would have earned? Essentially the amount that junior doctors get paid for working unsocial hours is being cut, this is not overtime but part of their normal rota. Here's the BMA's argument, taken from here: Extend routine working hours from 60 per week to 90. It is unacceptable that working 9pm on a Saturday is viewed the same as working 9am on a Tuesday. Remove vital safeguards which discourage employers from making junior doctors work dangerously long hours, and in doing so protect both patient and doctor safety See pay no longer matching with the experience junior doctors’ gain through their training. Edited January 17, 2016 by JFKvsNixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daven Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 No they aren't. You have to be a nurse before you can become a ward sister, but the contract and job roles differ. The same answer to the post above uours Ward Sisters ARE nurses ! The role is slightly different to a Staff Nurse as there is far more responsibility but they are still nurses and perfom nursing duties. I don't get why you find this so hard to grasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Daven, just to check, you're in the nursing profession yourself, right? My Mum was a nurse, and a ward sister before she retired. ---------- Post added 19-01-2016 at 09:13 ---------- Ok, GP Reg's were on strike. Semantics over, it's still a pay dispute. It's semantics when you get it factually wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Daven, just to check, you're in the nursing profession yourself, right? My Mum was a nurse, and a ward sister before she retired. ---------- Post added 19-01-2016 at 09:13 ---------- It's semantics when you get it factually wrong... Yawn. Except that doctors were on strike in GP's surgeries all over the country. If you and other people refer to them as "Junior Doctors" in all your other guff that's fine because I don't have time, inclination or necessity to explain the relevant subtleties. It's not my fault if you don't have a clue and then try to use semantics to big yourself up with a strawman. In future, just list all the relevant grades every time and we'll all be seriously impressed at your OCD as well as your awkwardness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daven Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Daven, just to check, you're in the nursing profession yourself, right? My Mum was a nurse, and a ward sister before she retired.[COLOR="Silver"] ---------- Post added 19-01-2016 at 09:13 ---------- [/color] It's semantics when you get it factually wrong... Was this in Sheffield ? I have worked as a nurse in the NHS for almost 40 years - maybe I know her ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yawn. Except that doctors were on strike in GP's surgeries all over the country. If you and other people refer to them as "Junior Doctors" in all your other guff that's fine because I don't have time, inclination or necessity to explain the relevant subtleties. It's not my fault if you don't have a clue and then try to use semantics to big yourself up with a strawman. In future, just list all the relevant grades every time and we'll all be seriously impressed at your OCD as well as your awkwardness. The doctors you refer to from GP surgeries who went on strike are by definition Junior Doctors. Doctors who are not either GP's or consultants. The term Junior Doctor is misleading to many, it is every doctor from 1st day starting work to last day before gaining full GP / consultant status, for many this is 10+ yrs of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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