Junior Doctors row: 98% vote to strike

[unbeliever]

Amongst other things, the junior doctors aren't striking for a better deal, they're striking to maintain their current levels of pay!!!!!!!! I also wouldn't describe receiving a salary as feathering a nest, but then envy can often cloud people's judgement.

 

Not exactly.

They're striking to maintain the current deal (including being paid more at weekends).

 

I have a PhD and I work for the state. I've been doing it a while. If I had a MD instead I would be paid quite a lot more.

Perhaps its time to bring senior physicians' pay into line with others of the same level of education elsewhere in the state sector, and at the same time bring junior doctors pay up similarly.

Somebody starting in my line of work having just completed their PhD, would be paid more than a junior doctor. But my boss makes less than a senior doctor.

I'm just suggesting that the pay curve in the NHS is perhaps too steep and that's why staff costs are so high overall, but junior doctors feel hard done by.

 

The average career earnings of a physician could remain the same. Nobody would have to lose out overall. You just start them on more, but increase their pay more slowly as they progress. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[JFKvsNixon]

Not exactly.

They're striking to maintain the current deal (including being paid more at weekends).

 

I have a PhD and I work for the state. I've been doing it a while. If I had a MD instead I would be paid quite a lot more.

Perhaps its time to bring senior physicians' pay into line with others of the same level of education elsewhere in the state sector, and at the same time bring junior doctors pay up similarly.

Somebody starting in my line of work having just completed their PhD, would be paid more than a junior doctor. But my boss makes less than a senior doctor.

I'm just suggesting that the pay curve in the NHS is perhaps too steep and that's why staff costs are so high overall, but junior doctors feel hard done by.

 

The average career earnings of a physician could remain the same. Nobody would have to lose out overall. You just start them on more, but increase their pay more slowly as they progress. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

Or what about, this may be radical, we continue to pay our doctors what they already earn?

 

If we want our healthcare to be of a similar standard to other comparative countries, why not fund it to comparative levels? Instead of expecting it's staff to fund it via pay cuts.

[unbeliever]

Or what about, this may be radical, we continue to pay our doctors what they already earn?

 

If we want our healthcare to be of a similar standard to other comparative countries, why not fund it to comparative levels? Instead of expecting it's staff to fund it via pay cuts.

 

In most countries, healthcare is not nationalised to the degree it is in the UK.

It's generally understood when you work for the taxpayer that you do so in part to serve the people and not just to make money.

I could make more money in the private sector. I don't because I want to serve the people.

[JFKvsNixon]

In most countries, healthcare is not nationalised to the degree it is in the UK.

It's generally understood when you work for the taxpayer that you do so in part to serve the people and not just to make money.

I could make more money in the private sector. I don't because I want to serve the people.

 

So how much of your wage do you donate back to your department to fund improvements?

[unbeliever]

So how much of your wage do you donate back to your department to fund improvements?

 

You're ignoring what I've already said. My pay is already not competitive with the private sector, I'm already accepting lower pay. I'm suggesting that senior doctors might consider doing the same.

[JFKvsNixon]

You're ignoring what I've already said. My pay is already not competitive with the private sector, I'm already accepting lower pay. I'm suggesting that senior doctors might consider doing the same.

 

I ignored it because I didn't believe that you had a valid point when you consider that the doctors pay is also a lot less than they would receive in the private sector/abroad. It seems like they in similar situation to you.

 

So how much are you prepared to donate out of your salary to fund improvements in your department? Wouldn't it make you a little hypercritical for you not to be prepared to do something that you expect of others?

[Eric Arthur]

Why should the NHS's staff have to fund the Conservative government's plans?

 

Labour's plans originally actually.

 

There's this in May 2007

Gordon Brown is heading for a showdown with family doctors over their six-figure salaries. He will tell them to bring back proper out-of-hours care or effectively take a pay cut. GPs will be ordered to see patients in the evenings and at weekends to justify their bumper salaries - which have risen to an average of more than £100,000 in the last few years.

 

And then there's what actually happened in October 2008.

The government has struck a deal with doctors' leaders to reform the GP contract which MPs complained had led to "eye-watering" pay rises, it was revealed today.

 

Doctors unions are used to bouncing governments into "eye watering" pay deals because they play on public sympathy for the NHS Angels, and they are trying it on again. Maybe you drank the BMA Kool Aid too.

[JFKvsNixon]

Labour's plans originally actually.

 

There's this in May 2007

Gordon Brown is heading for a showdown with family doctors over their six-figure salaries. He will tell them to bring back proper out-of-hours care or effectively take a pay cut. GPs will be ordered to see patients in the evenings and at weekends to justify their bumper salaries - which have risen to an average of more than £100,000 in the last few years.

 

And then there's what actually happened in October 2008.

The government has struck a deal with doctors' leaders to reform the GP contract which MPs complained had led to "eye-watering" pay rises, it was revealed today.

 

Doctors unions are used to bouncing governments into "eye watering" pay deals because they play on public sympathy for the NHS Angels, and they are trying it on again. Maybe you drank the BMA Kool Aid too.

 

You are right about The Labour government making a complete hash of GP contracts, what has it got to do with the junior doctor's contract though?

 

Also, how is wanting to retain your current pay and conditions trying bounce the government into an eye watering deal?

Edited January 21, 2016 by JFKvsNixon

[unbeliever]

I ignored it because I didn't believe that you had a valid point when you consider that the doctors pay is also a lot less than they would receive in the private sector/abroad. It seems like they in similar situation to you.

 

So how much are you prepared to donate out of your salary to fund improvements in your department? Wouldn't it make you a little hypercritical for you not to be prepared to do something that you expect of others?

 

This is a straw man argument by any definition.

I've just explained that in my line of work, the junior people are not hard done by and the senior people are not highly paid. If they were, the question might be valid. But they aren't so it isn't.

[JFKvsNixon]

This is a straw man argument by any definition.

I've just explained that in my line of work, the junior people are not hard done by and the senior people are not highly paid. If they were, the question might be valid. But they aren't so it isn't.

 

Fine, you may feel that it's a straw man argument to ask in essence whether you'd be happy to to take a pay to fund improvements where you work, on a thread that's discussing the pay cut that junior doctors have been asked to take to help fund improvements in their service, but I feel it's a relevant question.