Junior Doctors row: 98% vote to strike

[Eric Arthur]

You know why there are fewer astrophysicists? It's because there isn't that much work for astrophysicists.

 

Says who cyclone? Have a think about it before you respond.

 

---------- Post added 22-01-2016 at 11:39 ----------

 

That's not a solution to better care. That's a proposal that will result in worse care.

 

They are being asked to work fewer hours, not more.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Eric Arthur

[Cyclone]

The shortage of doctors is world-wide. It's been going on for decades and there's no simple solution.

 

It wouldn't be difficult to train more actually. The number of university places in the UK to train doctors is very limited.

Obviously that's not a quick fix, as it takes 5 years before even the most junior doctor gets spat out of the education system, but it IS a long term solution.

And more doctors means a better supply/demand and will naturally drive down pay.

Currently triple A students can be turned away from places studying medicine due to the lack of places available, that doesn't make any sense.

 

Of course the current attacks by the government are going to be highly disincentivising to anyone thinking about studying medicine in the next few years.

 

---------- Post added 22-01-2016 at 11:41 ----------

 

Says who cyclone? Have a think about it before you respond.

Quite clearly I said so.

Do you want to argue the point? If so, just do it, don't be shy.

They are being asked to work fewer hours, not more.

 

Yes, in conservative spin world maybe.

 

Does Cameron operate you like a puppet, or are you trying to impress someone in the young conservatives?

[Orzel]

There is enough doctors. At least in this country.

There is just too much bureaucracy. Healthcare is free so people abuse it.

Norwegian model where you pay small amount for each visit is just pure genius. They don't have shortages there. They have enough nurses and doctors.

We have same model here with pharmacies - it's called prescription charge and it's fixed amount no matter how cheap or expensive medicine is.

People who have to pay it don't abuse it and take only what's necessary.

People on 'income support', JSA and other BS don't have to and guess who abuses that system. Those people will even go to a doctor to get a prescription for paracetamol that costs 50p on shop floor in any ASDA because that way they get it for free.

Who is ready to spend an hour or two for 50p.

Prescription charge could have been lowered if all those people would have to pay it. And then they could afford it.

In Norway even cancer patients have to pay for visits and treatment.

But amounts are affordable and you pay only up to certain amount a year.

And guess what all you commies - they are leftier than any of you lefties.

But smart enough to be practical. And have no shortages.

And have public healthcare working swell.

NHS is flawed by design and that where whole problem is.

Not with junior doctors wanting decent work conditions.

[truman]

 

Apart from the past evidence of the conservative party privatising everything it can, and that ultimately resulting in higher costs to the public... Oh, and members of the conservative party personally benefitting due to links to those newly privatised industries...

No evidence at all.

 

Is that much different to the PFI contracts signed by Labour?

[Eric Arthur]

Is that much different to the PFI contracts signed by Labour?

 

Or that 99.99% of GP's are private contractors?

 

 

The only thing that 99% of people really care about is that they get good quality care that is free at the point of use. The GP example demonstrates that nobody gives a tinkers cuss if they are state employees or not.

 

Good quality care should be available 24/7.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Eric Arthur

[nightrider]

Medical Doctor and someone with a real doctorate aren't comparable at all.

You could have a PhD in art history, that doesn't make you worth as much as a junior doctor I'm afraid, even though you'd have a real doctorate.

The pay is little to do with the level of education, and more to do with the demands of the job, the high level of skill required, the level of responsibility and the shortage of people who can do that job (that's a different issue, we should be training more doctors, then pay could naturally go down).

 

Don't they restrict numbers that can train though? If so one might wonder if the shortage causing high pay is deliberate.

[unbeliever]

Don't they restrict numbers that can train though? If so one might wonder if the shortage causing high pay is deliberate.

 

More likely that they're very expensive to train.

[Eric Arthur]

More likely that they're very expensive to train.

 

I seem to recall that it is about a million pounds. Since their student loan doesn't cover it there's another reason why junior doctors wages should be modest, or if they want more money they should have a minimum contract with the NHS, say 10 years.

[unbeliever]

I seem to recall that it is about a million pounds. Since their student loan doesn't cover it there's another reason why junior doctors wages should be modest, or if they want more money they should have a minimum contract with the NHS, say 10 years.

 

I'm not sure that's enforceable. What happens if somebody completes their training and refuses to do their 10 years. We can hardly put them in prison.

[truman]

I'm not sure that's enforceable. What happens if somebody completes their training and refuses to do their 10 years. We can hardly put them in prison.

 

A company I used to work for sent some people on a quite specialised course..a stipulation was that they should work for the company for 2 years afterwards..if they left then they had to pay a proportion of the costs back..