sutty27 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Does it really matter what sutty thinks? Does it really matter whether he thinks th rest of the terms are reasonable or not? The people who know whether it suts them are the junior Dr's as they are the ones doing the jobs and the ones whil will be required to work the new contract. They are the ones who can decide whether its an attractive, favourable, neutral, poor or bad offer. They can respond accordingly..... Public employees are employed by the elected government or council, so my guess would be that yes it matters what the public think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Public employees are employed by the elected government or council, so my guess would be that yes it matters what the public think. Very true, and it seems that the public are behind the junior doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Very true, I just think it's important that people know why the junior doctors are striking. Tired and unmotivated junior doctors are a bad thing for the NHS and in turn potentially bad for all of us. Anyway it's been reported that the new contract will start from 1st August, so there we are. I think you are too optimistic about SF. Now the Drs have to decide what it is they want to do about it. Ultimately you walk away and find something else and a better employer. It will just mean more foreign Drs to plug the gap and more expensive locums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 You cant unilaterally change contracts. Terms and conditions of employment are for both parties to decide between themselves and agree upon. So really you are speaking rubbish. This is why the sides are negotiating. Your employer cant suddenly change your contract as they see fit. No they are for the employer to decide and the employee to accept or decline, if they accept they have a job, if they decline they don't have a job, terms of employment can also be changed by the employer, the employee can accept the news terms or walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerstein Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I think you are too optimistic about SF. Now the Drs have to decide what it is they want to do about it. Ultimately you walk away and find something else and a better employer. It will just mean more foreign Drs to plug the gap and more expensive locums. And speeding up the ever increasing downward spiral of the NHS. Nice one David Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 No, the majority of junior doctors work long unsociable hours so it will effect the majority of them. That is clear. Generally a service at 9pm Saturday costs more than a service 9am Tuesday, to take into account the sacrifices needed to work at Saturday 9PM. Try getting a plumber or a solicitor to work for the same rates on at 9PM on Saturday. This isn't anything new and it has been accepted for decades. What sacrifices is needed to work at Saturday 9PM. Saturday is no different to any other day and 9pm is no different to any other time of day. ---------- Post added 11-02-2016 at 10:16 ---------- Very true, and it seems that the public are behind the junior doctors. Correct, apparently 66% of the public support doctors going out on strike, I too support them going out on strike. How bizarre, I support the government stance and the doctors stance at the same time, I think the doctors are mad for rejecting the government proposals but I support their right to reject them and strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Public employees are employed by the elected government or council, so my guess would be that yes it matters what the public think. Public overwhelmingly blame Jeremy Hunt for junior doctors' strike, poll finds Wednesday 10 February 2016 10:52 BST Yet the only people who do the job will be the junior Drs, so whether you think its unreasonable or not. They are the ones who will decide. Its advantageous to have public opinion, but that appears to be with the Drs. The public overwhelmingly blame the Government for the junior doctors' strike, a new poll shows. The Ipsos MORI survey conducted for the Health Service Journal shows 64 per cent blame the Government for the strike while just 13 say it is junior doctors' fault. The findings come as medics walk out for 24 hours over a new contract that would redefine weekend and evening working to not count as anti-social hours. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/public-overwhelmingly-blame-jeremy-hunt-for-junior-doctors-strike-poll-finds-a6864666.html http://news.sky.com/story/1639462/sky-poll-74-percent-of-public-back-doctors-strike http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-02-10/poll-do-you-support-the-junior-doctors-strike/ So that's poll findings ranging from 64%-89% in support of the Drs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/public-overwhelmingly-blame-jeremy-hunt-for-junior-doctors-strike-poll-finds-a6864666.html http://news.sky.com/story/1639462/sky-poll-74-percent-of-public-back-doctors-strike http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-02-10/poll-do-you-support-the-junior-doctors-strike/ So that's poll findings ranging from 64%-89% in support of the Drs. I am aware that doctors have a majority public support. Correct, apparently 66% of the public support doctors going out on strike, I too support them going out on strike. How bizarre, I support the government stance and the doctors stance at the same time, I think the doctors are mad for rejecting the government proposals but I support their right to reject them and strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 A reduction of the maximum working week by 20 hours seems like a good idea. Yes it does, however you need to read a little further into that and see that currently hospitals are fined heavily if they have junior doctors working above a certain level (annoyingly cannot find this now!). This is being removed meaning there is no incentive for a hospital to NOT schedule a doctor for longer hours. The maximum number of hours a doctor can work is advisory ONLY in the new contract with no method to enforce it. This is one of the main disputes along with the 'Saturday being a normal day' part. In short what is being offered is: - A recommendation for junior doctors to work less - Removal of any legal or penalty based system to enforce it In my world that makes it a soundbite and nothing more. Hospitals short on cover WILL exploit it and doctors WILL end up working far longer than the hours on the contract, at less pay than they currently get for the ENFORCED overtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 No they are for the employer to decide and the employee to accept or decline, if they accept they have a job, if they decline they don't have a job, terms of employment can also be changed by the employer, the employee can accept the news terms or walk away. What you mean is what the government will do is effectively terminate everyones contract. They can do that and its up to the Drs to decude what to do. To do that will further demoralise them. It will increase the brain drain. It will mean expensive locums and place further strain on the NHS depending how many leave or strike. The Drs are in the unusual position, in that they have overwhelming public support. They have a skill that's in demand and can earn much more outside the NHS. They are intelligent enough to know and understand what's on offer to make their own minds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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