Daven Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Junior doctors are in privileged position. They are better off then most of same age. Good pay, job security to name a few. They will get even more money per hour with new contract. They are not protesting for patients. They are protesting because new contracts impose new obligations on them. They will be expected to provide services 24/7/365. Not 24/7 each of them. 24/7/365 like other vital services. National Grid engineers are doing it, it's not that hard. Firemen do it. It's part of that job. They will not get paid premium bonus for doing it and it seems that what its all about. They already provide this. Dear God ! Have you not read ANY of this thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Junior doctors are in privileged position. They are better off then most of same age. Good pay, job security to name a few. They will get even more money per hour with new contract. They are not protesting for patients. They are protesting because new contracts impose new obligations on them. They will be expected to provide services 24/7/365. Not 24/7 each of them. 24/7/365 like other vital services. National Grid engineers are doing it, it's not that hard. Firemen do it. It's part of that job. They will not get paid premium bonus for doing it and it seems that what its all about. They start on £23k a year with debts of up to £70k. Doesn't sound too privileged to me. It may be news to you, but that junior doctors currently carry lions share of the burden for working weekends and nights, so I fail to see that you've got a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 They start on £23k a year with debts of up to £70k. Doesn't sound too privileged to me. It may be news to you, but that junior doctors currently carry lions share of the burden for working weekends and nights, so I fail to see that you've got a point. Train in something else then? They are all intelligent people as has been said countless times, could they not see that training to be a doctor will never give them a rich life and that the NHS is more or less finished?... let the foreigners treat us, like I said before. They supply us with everything else, oil, food, clothes, labour, health care etc. They start on £23k a year with debts of up to £70k. Doesn't sound too privileged to me. It may be news to you, but that junior doctors currently carry lions share of the burden for working weekends and nights, so I fail to see that you've got a point. Why don't the placards complain at the tuition fees to help with this matter? These tuition fees brought in by the Torys... ********! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 From the original news on the BBC; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34475955 The new contract changes anti-social hours to outside 07:00 to 22:00 Monday to Saturday, making Saturday between 07:00 and 22:00 part of a junior doctor's normal working week. The change to Saturday working has angered doctors, who say it will reduce overtime pay and cut salaries. The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has indicated he may be prepared to reconsider his plan to reclassify working on Saturdays. From today's news; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35548091 The government is offering extra pay after 5pm But they have offered to top up the pay by 30% for those who work regular Saturdays - defined as at least one in four The BMA wants all day Saturday for everyone to be paid at 50% above the basic rate Agreement has not been reached on on-call allowances, how limits on working hours are to be policed and days off between night shifts The government has offered a basic pay rise of 13.5% The BMA has said it is willing to accept between a 4% and 7% hike in basic pay to cover the weekend pay issue .. am I reading that right that the Government has offered a basic pay increase of 13.5%, is willing to offer more for hours after 5 PM and time and a third for working regular Saturdays (1 in 4)? .. and the BMA is rejecting it in favour of a basic pay increase of 4% and 7%, with time and a half on any Saturday? It strikes me that the BMA is offering a deal which is a compromise with less enhancements than currently - which makes me wonder what sort of overtime rates junior doctors are currently on. Double pay at weekends? Triple pay for unsociable hours (which currently are from 7PM)? As much as I support the NHS, pay rates like those are ludicrous and can't be sustainable in any organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 From the original news on the BBC; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34475955 The new contract changes anti-social hours to outside 07:00 to 22:00 Monday to Saturday, making Saturday between 07:00 and 22:00 part of a junior doctor's normal working week. The change to Saturday working has angered doctors, who say it will reduce overtime pay and cut salaries. The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has indicated he may be prepared to reconsider his plan to reclassify working on Saturdays. From today's news; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35548091 The government is offering extra pay after 5pm But they have offered to top up the pay by 30% for those who work regular Saturdays - defined as at least one in four The BMA wants all day Saturday for everyone to be paid at 50% above the basic rate Agreement has not been reached on on-call allowances, how limits on working hours are to be policed and days off between night shifts The government has offered a basic pay rise of 13.5% The BMA has said it is willing to accept between a 4% and 7% hike in basic pay to cover the weekend pay issue .. am I reading that right that the Government has offered a basic pay increase of 13.5%, is willing to offer more for hours after 5 PM and time and a third for working regular Saturdays (1 in 4)? .. and the BMA is rejecting it in favour of a basic pay increase of 4% and 7%, with time and a half on any Saturday? It strikes me that the BMA is offering a deal which is a compromise with less enhancements than currently - which makes me wonder what sort of overtime rates junior doctors are currently on. Double pay at weekends? Triple pay for unsociable hours (which currently are from 7PM)? As much as I support the NHS, pay rates like those are ludicrous and can't be sustainable in any organisation. Is a maximum of £30k a year, for what a new junior doctor could earn with their current enhancements, too much? Or at the other end of the spectrum a junior doctor coming to the end of their specialist training, who would be in charge of of teams making life and death decisions or carrying out surgery without direct supervision overpaid at a maximum of £70k with their enhancements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 In fairness is it not better to talk to the people on the ground than trust in well written bma press release? Not necesarily. It's a bit stupid to argue that all doctors are just interested in the money. In fact it's hard to believe people are even trying to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bloke Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Is a maximum of £30k a year, for what a new junior doctor could earn with their current enhancements, too much? Or at the other end of the spectrum a junior doctor coming to the end of their specialist training, who would be in charge of of teams making life and death decisions or carrying out surgery without direct supervision overpaid at a maximum of £70k with their enhancements? It's not for me to decide if they are paid too much or too little, I'm not a doctor; that also wasn't what I pointed out in my post. Who do you blame, the Government of the present for trying to change things or the Governments of the past for creating a pay structure that would make an employee working 1 weekend of 4 so expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It's not for me to decide if they are paid too much or too little, I'm not a doctor; that also wasn't what I pointed out in my post. Who do you blame, the Government of the present for trying to change things or the Governments of the past for creating a pay structure that would make an employee working 1 weekend of 4 so expensive? Its historical though. To give it up they need to be given a better deal. I dont blame the overnment for trying to change things, but very poor pr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageSlave Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Not necesarily. It's a bit stupid to argue that all doctors are just interested in the money. In fact it's hard to believe people are even trying to do so. Maybe I was unlucky and just happened to come across a group of doctors that are just interested in money because that's all they kept banging on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andbreathe Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Maybe I was unlucky and just happened to come across a group of doctors that are just interested in money because that's all they kept banging on about. Or maybe you didn't actually go at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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