Is it illegal for a British citizen living in uk to support ISIS?

[sgtkate]

This may answer your doubt's

 

C & P from link

levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Then yes, we should try people who go to join ISIS or similar with treason. Legal precedent has been set so no reason why it shouldn't be followed.

[Cyclone]

Part 1 - Offences[edit]

This Part creates a series of new criminal offences intended to assist the police in tackling terrorism. They are:

 

Encouragement of terrorism (section 1): Prohibits the publishing of "a statement that is likely to be understood by some or all of the members of the public to whom it is published as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to them to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism or Convention offences." Indirect encouragement statements include every statement which glorifies the commission or preparation (whether in the past, in the future or generally) of such acts or offences; and is a statement from which those members of the public could reasonably be expected to infer that what is being glorified is being glorified as conduct that should be emulated by them in existing circumstances."[3] In England and Wales, a person guilty of this offence is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years, or to a fine, or to both, or, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both. In Scotland and Northern Ireland, a person guilty of this offence is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years, or to a fine, or to both, or, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.

Disseminating terrorist publications (Section 2): Prohibits the dissemination of a publication which is either (a) likely to be understood as directly or indirectly encouraging terrorism, or (b) includes information which is likely to be understood as being useful in the commission or preparation of an act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is seven years' imprisonment.

Preparation of terrorist acts (Section 5): Prohibits anyone from engaging in any conduct in preparation for an intended act of terrorism. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

Training for terrorism (Section 6): Prohibits anyone from training others in terrorist activities, or from receiving training. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.

Attendance at a place used for terrorist training (Section : Prohibits anyone from being at a place where training is going on (whether in the United Kingdom or abroad), provided the person knew or reasonably believed that it was happening. The maximum penalty is 10 years' imprisonment.

Making and possession of devices or materials (Section 9): Prohibits the making or possession of any radioactive device (i.e. a dirty bomb). The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

Misuse of devices or material and misuse and damage of facilities (Section 10): Prohibits using radioactive materials or a radioactive device in a terrorist attack, and the sabotage of nuclear facilities which causes a radioactive leak. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

Terrorist threats relating to devices, materials or facilities (Section 11): Prohibits anyone from making threats to demand that they be given radioactive materials. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

Trespassing etc. on nuclear sites (Section 12): Extends a previous ban on trespassing, imposed by the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, to cover any nuclear site.

 

There are specific laws already, I doubt that treason would apply.

[sgtkate]

There are specific laws already, I doubt that treason would apply.

 

Perhaps it should if that terrorist group are in direct conflict with the UK. If they are not then the other laws can apply. There are multiple terrorist groups that it's illegal to join who are not in anyway targeting the UK.

[kidley]

There are specific laws already, I doubt that treason would apply.

 

Would this constitute treason? in the United Kingdom it does'

 

"levying war against the sovereign and adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid or comfort;"

 

this is the official bit

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw3Stat5/25/2/section/II

Edited December 1, 2015 by kidley
added text

[Cyclone]

Daesh are not a state, they therefore aren't legally enemies of the state (I would think).

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 13:30 ----------

 

Perhaps it should if that terrorist group are in direct conflict with the UK. If they are not then the other laws can apply. There are multiple terrorist groups that it's illegal to join who are not in anyway targeting the UK.

 

So having given aid to the IRA would have been an act of treason instead of the more normal criminal offences that were used.

[sgtkate]

Daesh are not a state, they therefore aren't legally enemies of the state (I would think).

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 13:30 ----------

 

 

So having given aid to the IRA would have been an act of treason instead of the more normal criminal offences that were used.

 

That's a good question...It could easily be deemed so. In fact more so than ISIS as the IRA were directly attacking the UK and were trying to break the country up. I'm not sure I'd have too many complaints if British citizens were to be prosecuted for treason for directly supporting the IRA. Ultimately, if you want to fight for another country over the one of your passport, then give up that citizenship, and go fight. Same for ISIS. Want to join them, off you go but leave your UK citizenship on the way out. You cannot have the best of both worlds.

 

Problems come when you are unable to get citizenship though for the country of your choice...and as ISIS isn't a country it's a problematic one. Perhaps the UN could give country status to ISIS! Problem solved I'm not being serious here.

[Cyclone]

It never has been deemed so to my knowledge because more specific legislation applies and the IRA was also not a state. Something that is not a state cannot be an enemy of the state. Terrorist groups are defined as just that, not as states we are at war with (despite the political rhetoric sometimes).

 

Do you think that renouncing your British citizenship would see you safe from prosecution, I don't...

[sgtkate]

It never has been deemed so to my knowledge because more specific legislation applies and the IRA was also not a state. Something that is not a state cannot be an enemy of the state. Terrorist groups are defined as just that, not as states we are at war with (despite the political rhetoric sometimes).

 

Do you think that renouncing your British citizenship would see you safe from prosecution, I don't...

 

I don't know. Again has there been a legal precedent? If you aren't a British citizen but commit a crime on British soil then you can be prosecuted for it. However, a Brit committing a crime abroad is not subject to UK laws are they? So technically they are not under UK jurisdiction if they go to Syria, but if they have given up their UK passport they have no right to enter the country, so I can't see how they could be prosecuted for a crime.

[JFKvsNixon]

Interestingly, I was reading about an 18 year old teenager who was prosecuted for trying to fight against ISIS. She got 21 months in a young offenders institute for attempting to join the Kurdish PKK to fight against ISIS. More here.

[999tigger]

Interestingly, I was reading about an 18 year old teenager who was prosecuted for trying to fight against ISIS. She got 21 months in a young offenders institute for attempting to join the Kurdish PKK to fight against ISIS. More here.

 

Yes id already read about that. Ironic really. It reminds me of all the men from this country who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 20:26 ----------

 

I don't know. Again has there been a legal precedent? If you aren't a British citizen but commit a crime on British soil then you can be prosecuted for it. However, a Brit committing a crime abroad is not subject to UK laws are they? So technically they are not under UK jurisdiction if they go to Syria, but if they have given up their UK passport they have no right to enter the country, so I can't see how they could be prosecuted for a crime.

 

Kate I think the treason thing is a bit of a red herring. They have a raft of terrorist offences that they prefer to prosecute under as they are more specific. They prefer to use those.

 

Part of the reason is that they prefer not to give ISIS the same type of dignity as they might a foreign power and its better of they prosecute and treat them as terrorists.

 

The other aspect is that if you charge everyone with treason, then there is no inbetween as its a life sentence and one of the dilemmas they have is that some returnees are more useful if they cna be de radicalised and get across their disilluionment with what they find over there and deter others. So one charge doesnt really fit all. Its been mooted to use treason, but for the moment they choose not to.