999tigger Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'm pretty sure you have the right to refuse service to anyone without giving any reason. So it doesn't matter if someone is gay, black, vegetarian, wearing a burqa, got a wooden leg, looks at you funny, or you just can't be arsed. You're not breaking any law by refusing to serve people. Certain forms of discrimination are not allowed, so in many of your examples yes you would be breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidla Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Why? Is it somehow related to a self imposed rule or a belief? Obviously the answer is yes, but I fail to see how it's related to you explaining the difference. Do you believe you should have the right to cycle on the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I don't have a belief that I HAVE to cycle on the road, nor a personal rule that I must do so. If I had a belief that I must cycle on the road, that would be a lot like a personal rule that I must cycle on the road. Beliefs about what I must do are no different to personal rules that I set and follow. Beliefs about the world in general are nothing like rules. But you were trying to say that a belief that you must wear a hat, is not the same as a personal rule that you must wear a hat. The two are identical. The belief and the rule translate into the behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Any shop can refuse to serve anyone. All this discrimination stuff is in the eye of the beholden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Any shop can refuse to serve anyone. All this discrimination stuff is in the eye of the beholden. If they refuse to serve someone for certain reasons then they are breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If they refuse to serve someone for certain reasons then they are breaking the law. No shop in the UK is obliged to serve anyone. If somebody did get refused for any reason, it would be a customer service issue, not a legal issue. Shops invite people into their premises, but do not have a legal obligation to sell anything to anyone. The legal term is "invitation of offer" to which any business in the UK is legally allowed to reject from any individual. Should that individual take offence, that is their problem, and their prerogative to shop elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 No shop in the UK is obliged to serve anyone. If somebody did get refused for any reason, it would be a customer service issue, not a legal issue. Shops invite people into their premises, but do not have a legal obligation to sell anything to anyone. The legal term is "invitation of offer" to which any business in the UK is legally allowed to reject from any individual. Should that individual take offence, that is their problem, and their prerogative to shop elsewhere. Do you believe that a shop that served a load of white people, refused to serve a black person and then continued to serve white people could get away with those actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) No shop in the UK is obliged to serve anyone. If somebody did get refused for any reason, it would be a customer service issue, not a legal issue. Shops invite people into their premises, but do not have a legal obligation to sell anything to anyone. The legal term is "invitation of offer" to which any business in the UK is legally allowed to reject from any individual. Should that individual take offence, that is their problem, and their prerogative to shop elsewhere. You're completely clueless. People who access your goods, facilities or services are protected from direct discrimination on the basis of a ‘protected characteristic’.The relevant characteristics are: • � disability (definition changed) • � gender reassignment (definition changed) • � pregnancy and maternity • � race – this includes ethnic or national origins, colour and nationality • � religion or belief • � sex, and • � sexual orientation from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85008/business-quickstart.pdf Some examples Brian wants to take his wife, who is a Muslim, to his golf club dinner.The club refuses admission because she is a Muslim.This is unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. A private members’ tennis club, which has members of both sexes, allows its male members to play at all times but female members can only play on certain days.The Equality Act 2010 means that the club will now need to offer the same facilities to all members. Patrick wants to go to the local nightclub with his disabled girlfriend, Bridget.The doorman turns them away because disabled people do not fit with the club’s image. Patrick would be able to claim that he has been discriminated against because of disability, as he was refused entry because of his association with Bridget, an individual with that protected characteristic. Geoff is a former soldier who lost both his legs during his service. Staff at his local café ask him to leave as they are worried that other customers may feel distressed when they see him. This is direct discrimination because of disability. Moira, a black woman, is shopping in her local grocery store and overhears a shop assistant and a customer chatting and making racially abusive comments. As this conduct was unwanted by Moira and it made her feel humiliated and degraded, she can make a claim of harassment, even though it was not directed at her. Edited November 26, 2015 by Cyclone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Do you believe that a shop that served a load of white people, refused to serve a black person and then continued to serve white people could get away with those actions? Absolutely not. That is clearly a terrible scenario, however if a person came to our trade counter wearing a full face helmet with the visor down, I wouldn't serve them unless they removed it. We have had one occasion where a religious person came in, head to foot in a black cape, and was mumbling something, and I nor my lads could understand a word he/she was saying. It was a surreal moment and ended with the person walking away empty handed. At the end of the day, if staff feel uneasy about a customer, it's their right to refuse to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Face covering and mode of dress are not a protected characteristic. What you claimed though is that a business can refuse to serve someone for any reason If somebody did get refused for any reason, it would be a customer service issue, not a legal issue You're wrong. As usual. There are reasons for which it would be illegal to refuse to serve someone. I don't think that face coverings of any kind fall under the religious protection angle, so you could refuse to serve someone who was covering their face. You couldn't refuse to serve someone because they were black, gay or Buddhist or all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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