tzijlstra Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The two most significant Eastern empires of the 2nd half of the previous millenium, the Ottomans and the Russians, had frequent wars, usually related to Black Sea territories including the Krim (Crimea). After the demise of the Ottoman and Russian Empires things have been relatively stable although Turks still claim parts of Russia and Russia still feels strongly about Eastern Anatolia as it borders several autonomous Russian regions that are strategically vital (read oil). The Turks have not been holding back against the Russians in the recent Syrian operations and shot down a Russian jet this morning and threatening to do so several times before, claiming Turkish airspace was violated. The trouble is: Turkish airspace equals NATO airspace, Russia and NATO aren't exactly friends, despite the Russians sending a replacement dog to French police last week. This incident will likely be coated in diplomatic to-and-fros but the Russians will be very annoyed as they believe they have a legitimate mandate to bomb Syria, the same mandate that NATO forces are using. NATO is annoyed because Russia bombs anything opposed to Assad, whereas NATO is bombing anything that is ISIS and this incident will increase the gap between the aggressors. What it might also do is see Putin hatch some sort of revenge plan, if he does retaliate against the Turks we could well be in a very unpleasant situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The two most significant Eastern empires of the 2nd half of the previous millenium, the Ottomans and the Russians, had frequent wars, usually related to Black Sea territories including the Krim (Crimea). After the demise of the Ottoman and Russian Empires things have been relatively stable although Turks still claim parts of Russia and Russia still feels strongly about Eastern Anatolia as it borders several autonomous Russian regions that are strategically vital (read oil). The Turks have not been holding back against the Russians in the recent Syrian operations and shot down a Russian jet this morning and threatening to do so several times before, claiming Turkish airspace was violated. The trouble is: Turkish airspace equals NATO airspace, Russia and NATO aren't exactly friends, despite the Russians sending a replacement dog to French police last week. This incident will likely be coated in diplomatic to-and-fros but the Russians will be very annoyed as they believe they have a legitimate mandate to bomb Syria, the same mandate that NATO forces are using. NATO is annoyed because Russia bombs anything opposed to Assad, whereas NATO is bombing anything that is ISIS and this incident will increase the gap between the aggressors. What it might also do is see Putin hatch some sort of revenge plan, if he does retaliate against the Turks we could well be in a very unpleasant situation. It's another piece in the ever complicated mish-mash that is the middle east...I don't see any of it ending well for anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If the news is correct, its Russia being a bully once more. Good on the Turks for standing up to them and protecting their airspace. Just remember, Russian war planes are regularly escorted away from British airspace also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branyy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If the news is correct, its Russia being a bully once more. Good on the Turks for standing up to them and protecting their airspace. Just remember, Russian war planes are regularly escorted away from British airspace also. On the other hand, it seems that presence of Russian army is very inconvenient for oil business between ISIS and Turkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 If the news is correct, its Russia being a bully once more. Good on the Turks for standing up to them and protecting their airspace. Just remember, Russian war planes are regularly escorted away from British airspace also. The news is not necessarily correct, there is a lot of background here. Apparently Turkey told Russia some days ago that if Russian planes did not stop bombing Turkmen villages in the North of Syria (where Assad is pushing his next operation with air-support from the Russians) the Turks would take their planes out. The Turks claim that the plane was over Turkish airspace, but if that includes these Turkmen villages than they have no right to claim that. Russia claims it can prove (it probably will) that the planes were not over Turkey. This is a very complex situation that leads me to think that NATO should pull out of Syria altogether and leave the Russians to it. In the mean-time China is beginning to warn nations that this might escalate and that it is very worried about global stability as a result of these incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningman1 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If the news is correct, its Russia being a bully once more. Good on the Turks for standing up to them and protecting their airspace. Just remember, Russian war planes are regularly escorted away from British airspace also. It looks like the war planes were not over Turkish air space, it looks like it is the Turks being the bullies. This could be very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It looks like the war planes were not over Turkish air space, it looks like it is the Turks being the bullies. This could be very bad. How can you see from where you are if the plane was or wasn't in Turkey's airspace. Russia will say it wasn't, Turkey will say it was, both will provide evidence supporting their case. We need to remember that the UK has signed a treaty obligation to come to the aid of Turkey if it is attacked by Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The area in question has been a long running sore in the always fraught relations between the Turks and Syria. Since pretty much when Syria first came into being. The inhabitants are primarily not Arabs but Turk and the Turks saw from the onset of the current morass five years ago that this could be their chance to get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousedd Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 well maybe Russia will tell nato it will shoot down any of its planes violating Syrian airspace since they are protecting the Syrian government and its territorial integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 well maybe Russia will tell nato it will shoot down any of its planes violating Syrian airspace since they are protecting the Syrian government and its territorial integrity. Do you you believe that NATO will OK were very sorry, have a fee hand in Syria? Or do you think that NATO will say that they'll take steps to defend their plans from Russian attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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