Turko-Russian powder-keg

[L00b]

I see that Russia have now confirmed that their bombers will be escorted by fighters from now on.

As expected:

<...>That was an easy kill for Erdogan's boys. It would have been a different kettle of fish altogether if they'd come nose to nose with a Fulcrum or a SU30. Which will likely escort SU24s and SU25s from now on. That'll get real interesting then.

Downed Turkish jet fighter(s) in 3, 2, 1...

[BarryRiley]

Yes I bet they got a lot of warnings in during the 17 second period this allegedly happened. And it would appear that there is one rule for Turkey and another for Russia given this article - http://www.infowars.com/turkey-in-2012-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-a-pretext-for-an-attack/

 

Yes Erdogan did previously state that short term border violations were not a reason for taking physical action. Turkey also have a long history of illegally flying in to Greek airspace.

 

However, now the shoe is on the other foot.

[SqueakyPete]

Yes I bet they got a lot of warnings in during the 17 second period this allegedly happened. And it would appear that there is one rule for Turkey and another for Russia given this article - http://www.infowars.com/turkey-in-2012-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-a-pretext-for-an-attack/

 

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

[999tigger]

The US now say Turkey downed the jet in Syrian airspace. I assume that if true this will be a relief to NATO as they will not be forced to support a member states aggression outside of their boarders.

 

Some say Turkey only got involved because Russia bombed oil tankers destined for Turkey.

 

I'm suspicious of both parties in this, but I'm a little more supportive of Russia than Turkey.

 

Have you got a link? I didnt see the statement.

 

Its always been known the plane was hit by the missile outside syrian airspace, but the imporamt point is if at the time the missile was fired the Russian plane was inside Turkish airspace.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2015 at 14:47 ----------

 

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

 

Absolutely, what pete said. You would start warning aircraft that they were heading towards your airspace some time before they crossed into it. This is what the UK does when Russian bombers are testing our air defences.

 

The surviving pilot of a Russian plane shot down by Turkey on the Syrian border has said no warning was given.

 

TBF hes not going to say yes I strayed into Turkish airspace and yes they gave me repeated warnings to stay out.

Edited November 25, 2015 by 999tigger

[PeteMorris]

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

 

Well be that as it may, the plain fact is that the Russians were (if we believe Turkey's claim) in their airspace for no more than 17 seconds (barely enough time to wander into the kitchen and put the kettle on for a brew) , and were clearly no threat to anything on the Turkish side of the border, yet they chose to down the aircraft. It just makes me think that the Turks have more than a passing interest in whatever comes over the border from Syria.

 

So according to Russia now, they'll have to put up with far superior aircraft escorting Russian bomber aircraft...Not quite such an easy kill.

[phantom309]

On news night last night there was a film showing a Russian rescue helicopter having to make an emergency landing after being fired on while it was searching for the pilot and this was destroyed by Turkman rebels killing a crew member.

 

I think this will be a lot more significant as Russia could now deploy all its fire power to attack the the Turkman rebels and free Syrian army rebel groups and leave the western nations to attack IS.

I know they have already being do this with some attacks on IS as it was reported they have destroyed 1000 road tankers in the last 5 days but their main aim now will be to ensure that their own forces are free from attacks by the various rebel groups which will be justified by the Turkman rebels shooting at the pilots and destroying the helicopter.

 

Syrian air space will be under Russian command as they were asked by the legitimate Syrian government for assistance and have a large number of aircraft there.

It does seem rather confusing when most western spokesmen keep going on about getting Russia on board with them when Russia already as the lead by being there on the ground there and most likely running things on behalf of Syria which could result in the western nations having to work under Russian directive and completely opposite to the views which the west is trying to get us to believe.

[geared]

Its always been known the plane was hit by the missile outside syrian airspace, but the imporamt point is if at the time the missile was fired the Russian plane was inside Turkish airspace.

 

As various sources have said the plane was only inside Turkish airspace for a matter of seconds it's more likely the plane was over Syrian airspace.

 

The Turkish plane was probably in Turkish airspace, but that doesn't make much difference.

[999tigger]

As various sources have said the plane was only inside Turkish airspace for a matter of seconds it's more likely the plane was over Syrian airspace.

 

The Turkish plane was probably in Turkish airspace, but that doesn't make much difference.

 

It makes all the difference because if the plane was inside Turkish airspace at the time the missile was fired, then Turkey has a right to defend its airspace.

 

If the plane was in Syrian airspace when the missile was fired, then its a much weaker claim to have been defending its own airspace.

 

So your answer of it being more likely is pretty useless as the powers that be will wnat to know exacly where it was when the missile was fired. Probably and likely arent going to get other Nato allies being willing to come to Turkeys aid. they will want to KNOW and not guess or be vague about what happened.

[geared]

Both sides are claiming different flight plans, have you seen the layout of the land and of the particular boarder where the incident occurred??

 

The Turkish statements are contradictory anyway, on the one hand they are 'defending their airspace' while at the same time they have acknowledged they Russian jets were targeting rebels in Syria and posed them no threat.

 

They shot down someone they knew and have admitted was posing no threat to them, can you even claim that as defence??

Edited November 25, 2015 by geared

[exxon]

Both sides are claiming different flight plans, have you seen the layout of the land and of the particular boarder where the incident occurred??

 

The Turkish statements are contradictory anyway, on the one hand they are 'defending their airspace' while at the same time they have acknowledged they Russian jets were targeting rebels in Syria.

 

They shot down someone they knew and have admitted was posing no threat to them??

 

I suspect that this situation will be resolved by massive airstrikes by Russia on those rebels, which would of course demonstrate Russia wasn't intimidated by Turkey and had taken reprisals against the folk who murdered the 2 Russian pilots. It could even involve troops on the ground right up to the Turkish border.