GLASGOWOODS Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Turkey should be thrown out of NATO . Certainly never allowed to join the Euro union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 You really fail to understand the incident. Nato has expressed its support for Turkets right to defend its airspace. It isnt unprovoked as surely you have seen on the news the previous incursions by Russia and the complaints by Turkey. Your idea that it was unprovoked is clearly wrong if the Russian plane was in Turkish airspace at the time it was shot at. It had no right to be there. Do you have proof that the Russian pilot intentionaly flew into Turkies airspace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes, I wouldn't describe a 17 second incursion that was very likley to have been unintentional, as provokeing hostility. It was unintentional if they were heading towards Turkish airspace and had been warned. The fact they were in Turkish airspace at all is provocative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes, I wouldn't describe a 17 second incursion that was very likley to have been unintentional, as provokeing hostility. Are you saying my in-car satnav is more reliable than the navigation system of a SU-24 ? You'll be telling us next that flying Russian Tupolev TU-95 bombers off the coast of Cornwall was unintentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 True. The worry was that Russia would escalate the incident beyond it's importance. It seems that cooler heads have prevailed.I'll be sure to remind you about that post, and cassity, after the first Turkish F16 taken down by a Russian fighter or their A/S400 smacks into the ground. And I don't give that outcome 2 weeks. You are both underestimating the relevance, and importance, of Russian domestic politics to Putin. Joe Blogovich is already paranoid beyond measure about 'the West', and wants Turkish blood in revenge. Putin stokes this and will oblige. Then we'll see whose head is coolest. I'm hoping Erdogan's will, if he's not already resigned to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yes, I wouldn't describe a 17 second incursion that was very likley to have been unintentional, as provokeing hostility. The problem is that Russia's previous actions mean that it's impossible to give them the befit of the doubt. You need to acknowledge that Turkey's response wasn't provoked by this one flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Do you have proof that the Russian pilot intentionaly flew into Turkies airspace? Well Nato seem quite satisfied the incursion took place. They had been warned on several occasions, so you would think if they are professional pilots they would be able to navigate properly. You either do or dont believe the Turks issued warnings which were ignored. The easiest method is to turn away. Why would you need to fly so close to the border? Why leave it to chance. On Oct. 3 and 4 a Russian Air Force Su-30SM and Su-24 aircraft violated Ankara’s sovereign airspace in the Hatay region. NATO said that the Russian combat planes entered Turkish airspace despite Turkish authorities’ “clear, timely and repeated warnings.” In that case, TuAF F-16s in QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) were scrambled to identify the intruder, after which the Russian planes departed Turkish airspace. Nevertheless, as if violating the airspace of a NATO member was not enough, the Russian Su-30SM maintained a radar lock on one or both the F-16s for a full 5 minutes and 40 seconds. According the Russians, the violation was due to a “navigation error.” Following the incident Ankara said it would shot down any aircraft violating their sovereign airspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterman Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It was unintentional if they were heading towards Turkish airspace and had been warned. The fact they were in Turkish airspace at all is provocative. If in fact they were in Turkish airspace, something Russia denies, they should have been escorted out, not blown out of the sky over Syria. Unintentionaly flying for 17 seconds in another countries airspace isn't an act of provacation. Shooting it down whilst it was in Syrian airspace is an act of provacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'll be sure to remind you about that post, and cassity, after the first Turkish F16 taken down by a Russian fighter or their A/S400 smacks into the ground. And I don't give that outcome 2 weeks. You are both underestimating the relevance, and importance, of Russian domestic politics to Putin. Joe Blogovich is already paranoid beyond measure about 'the West', and wants Turkish blood in revenge. Putin stokes this and will oblige. Then we'll see whose head is coolest. I'm hoping Erdogan's will, if he's not already resigned to it. Well as long as they shoot them down inside syrian airspace, then its soemthing they cna sort out between themselves. Will see back in 2 weeks, then. ---------- Post added 25-11-2015 at 21:37 ---------- If in fact they were in Turkish airspace, something Russia denies, they should have been escorted out, not blown out of the sky over Syria. Unintentionaly flying for 17 seconds in another countries airspace isn't an act of provacation. Shooting it down whilst it was in Syrian airspace is an act of provacation. Its up to the Turks how they wnat to respond. As they had made it clear about how they would respond based on previous incursions, then they cnat see they hadnt been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'll be sure to remind you about that post, and cassity, after the first Turkish F16 taken down by a Russian fighter or their A/S400 smacks into the ground. And I don't give that outcome 2 weeks. You are both underestimating the relevance, and importance, of Russian domestic politics to Putin. Joe Blogovich is already paranoid beyond measure about 'the West', and wants Turkish blood in revenge. Putin stokes this and will oblige. Then we'll see whose head is coolest. I'm hoping Erdogan's will, if he's not already resigned to it. I hope for all our sakes that I'm right and your wrong. I think that if NATO had left Turkey isolated then Putin would have pushed harder for their revenge, but it seems that NATO are supporting Turkey so it doesn't give Putin much room to manoeuvre. My fear was that Russia would attack some of the SAM sites on/near the border. They could have done this with minimal threat of loss of Russian life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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