Turko-Russian powder-keg

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes I remember how glad we were for Turkish support in the Falklands.

 

Completely different scenario, no NATO country was attacked during the Falkland's conflict. So Turkey didn't have any treaty obligations to help us.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 13:53 ----------

 

And we don't have an aircraft carrier and not likely to (as it stands) until 2023...Great decision that was eh?

 

To be fair the fighter, the Sea Harrier, that could have defended them were retired in 2006 by the previous Labour government, leaving ground attack Harriers with only a very limited air to air capability left flying off them.

 

With that decision made their time of usefulness was coming to an end.

[PeteMorris]

Completely different scenario, no NATO country was attacked during the Falkland's conflict. So Turkey didn't have any treaty obligations to help us.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 13:53 ----------

 

 

To be fair the fighter, the Sea Harrier, that could have defended them were retired in 2006 by the previous Labour government, leaving ground attack Harriers with only a very limited air to air capability left flying off them.

 

With that decision made their time of usefulness was coming to an end.

 

Yes I can appreciate that...But I'd say even an old carrier is better than nothing at all...I never saw the logic in scrapping the last one...

[Agent Orange]

Why? What's russia going to do - bomb the rebels? They were doing that anyway.

 

I was talking about Russia's response to Turkey. With regards to the rebels, I suppose this now gives Putin carte blanche to bomb all rebels in Syria, not just ISIS.

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes I can appreciate that...But I'd say even an old carrier is better than nothing at all...I never saw the logic in scrapping the last one...

 

If it had no way to defend itself against an air attack, surely it became more of a liability draining resources?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 14:07 ----------

 

I was talking about Russia's response to Turkey. With regards to the rebels, I suppose this now gives Putin carte blanche to bomb all rebels in Syria, not just ISIS.

 

According to the reports, Russia's been concentrating on bombing the Western basil ant-government rebels.

[tinfoilhat]

If it had no way to defend itself against an air attack, surely it became more of a liability draining resources?

 

What sort of air attack? Let's face it since the Falklands our aircraft carriers are a platform for airstrikes and cruise missiles. They haven't been under any threat to the best of my knowledge.

[geared]

I was talking about Russia's response to Turkey. With regards to the rebels, I suppose this now gives Putin carte blanche to bomb all rebels in Syria, not just ISIS.

 

He was quite obviously doing that already though.

 

Most of the air strikes the Russians have made were on other Rebel groups.

[exxon]

Completely different scenario, no NATO country was attacked during the Falkland's conflict. So Turkey didn't have any treaty obligations to help us.

 

That is indeed true. So I wonder how in those circumstances the NATO charter affects us here.

 

"Article 5.

 

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

 

Article 6.

 

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

 

on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer"

"

[geared]

What sort of air attack? Let's face it since the Falklands our aircraft carriers are a platform for airstrikes and cruise missiles. They haven't been under any threat to the best of my knowledge.

 

We have been kinda lucky in that the only wars we've really gotten into were against Rebel/Terrorist groups who didn't have advanced anti-air capabilities.

 

Had we/if we get into it with another country with a half decent army our old planes would have been in trouble.

[JFKvsNixon]

What sort of air attack? Let's face it since the Falklands our aircraft carriers are a platform for airstrikes and cruise missiles. They haven't been under any threat to the best of my knowledge.

 

That's how the Labour government used them, although the cruise missiles were fired from our submarines. I think the coalition government thought that the amount of resources needed to keep them going didn't justify their capability.

 

Currently, you certainly wouldn't want them going anywhere near any air threat from Russia without additional air support.

[L00b]

It will be interesting to see whether this results in decreasing Erdogan's hold over Merkel and belaying the ongoing shotgun wedding of Turkey with the EU. Call me cynical, but with growing hindsight I'm increasingly thinking that Erdogan had a lot more to do with this summer's sudden influx of migrants into the EU than any other local factor or Merkel's "invite". He's long held the US and NATO to ransom with maintaining their access to and use of Incirlik, but he may have finally over-played his hand with this last one. Epecially now that the US doesn't need Incirlik as much, after pulling out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Edited November 24, 2015 by L00b