Drudge just tweeted "America has been arming ISIS"

[999tigger]

So your OP was in fact 'some US weapons fell into IS hands'

 

We know.

 

Now go back to claiming Diana was really hit by a missile or whatever you conspiracy freaks do for fun.

 

Keep posting Andy, some common sense.

[Anna B]

I looked at some of those links and read some of the blogs and they really dont like the west or nato. I was hoping you were going to provide some information from a credible source backed by serious journalists. I thought it was going to be a revelation of some massively covert operation discovered in the last year about lareg scale arms smuggling to ISIS. What we do know is they captured plenty of weaponry from the Iraqis when they ran away and they failed when they tried to train some people to fight ISIS a poliy they have since abandoned. I was expecting more tbh and am disappointed.

 

As far as the DIA report is concerned:

 

1. Its a draft. As it says on the second page "Not Finally Evaluated Intelligence"

2. It's old Aug 2012 so over 3 years ago. A lots happened in 3 years and the situation in Syria has changed as well as what ISIS has become.

3. They write many of these reports each week, its an intelligence report giving an update on what the author believes the situation to be. Ut would have veen more interesting to see one from the last 3 months. It is not official US policy.

 

The points you have chosen [anyone bothering to look will see its 7 pages with lots of blank spaces]

 

[*]Al-Qaeda drives the opposition in Syria

You missed out the Salafist and the Muslim Brotherhood.

At that time I dont think it was surprising they were dominant as the other rebels were poorly armed and disorganised. Nothing suspicious in that point, its just a comment.

 

[*]The West identifies with the opposition

 

Yes ofc they did and do, but thats because they wanted Assad out, it doesnt mean they supported AQI. the opposition for them were the people who had protested peacefully and then been attacked by Assads troops.

 

[*]The establishment of a nascent Islamic State became a reality only with the rise of the Syrian insurgency

 

Think its well known that one of the bi products of not settlung Iraq properly meant the conditions existed from which ISIS arose. Had they managed it better then in hindisght it might have been preventable.

 

[*]The establishment of a “Salafist Principality” in Eastern Syria is “exactly” what the external powers supporting the opposition want (identified as “the West, Gulf Countries, and Turkey”)

 

As an intelligence report it says if the situation unravels then there is the possibility... which shows its just conjecture about what might happen. This appears to be point 8c on page 5 and anyone else reading can look at it in context. It does say thats what they wnat but its more with a view to isolating Assad. It doesnt say its the grand design and us policy.

 

 

I was hoping for more quality over volume and credible news sources rather than people making videos for youtube. Id be interested in evidence which showed something impeachable or soemthing along the lines of iran- contra. I doubt ISIS need any money or weapons from the US as they have plenty of cash themselves.

 

I did read quite a few of the threads but gave up. Unconbinced at this stage. US weapons falling into ISIS hands is not enough, am looking for substantial amounts deliberately hiven to ISIS in the last 12 months authorised by the whitehouse or undeniably linked.

 

Thanks longcol and andy 76 plus what tinfoil said.

 

Trouble is, do you really think you are going to get the truth from Establishment sources? They haven't even managed to produce the Chilcott report yet...

 

And, all this weapons falling into Isis' hands by 'accident'? Isn't it standard practice in the armed forces to make sure they do not leave weapons behind, specifically so that they cannot be used by the opposition, even to the point of blowing them up?

[Longcol]

What are you talking about? We are talking about the USA arming ISIS. You seem to be refuting something different to what is being asserted.

 

Most of your "facts" come from conspiraloon websites with zero credibility

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2015 at 00:41 ----------

 

 

And, all this weapons falling into Isis' hands by 'accident'? Isn't it standard practice in the armed forces to make sure they do not leave weapons behind, specifically so that they cannot be used by the opposition, even to the point of blowing them up?

 

The people on the ground fighting ISIS aren't exactly professional soldiers Anna - I think the number of Sandhurst / SAS etc trained among the Syrian rebels is approximately zero.

[rinzwind]

I was hoping you were going to provide some information from a credible source backed by serious journalists.

 

Like the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency Michael Flynn, or the Aljazeera journalist Mehdi Hasan who interviewed him, or even Matt Drudge?

 

I thought it was going to be a revelation of some massively covert operation discovered in the last year about lareg scale arms smuggling to ISIS. What we do know is they captured plenty of weaponry from the Iraqis when they ran away and they failed when they tried to train some people to fight ISIS a poliy they have since abandoned. I was expecting more tbh and am disappointed.

 

All the revelations about the large scale arms smuggling to ISIS has been known about by lots of people for quite some time. I'm saying that Matt Drudge now appears to concur. I'm sorry if you are disappointed.

 

As far as the DIA report is concerned:

 

1. Its a draft. As it says on the second page "Not Finally Evaluated Intelligence"

 

In the full video of his interview with Medhi Hasan, Michael Flynn explains that it was presented to the Whitehouse and that he stands by the assesment.

 

2. It's old Aug 2012 so over 3 years ago. A lots happened in 3 years and the situation in Syria has changed as well as what ISIS has become.

 

Yes in that time, ISIS has become armed to the teeth with “significant quantities” of arms marked “property of the US government.” They have beheaded a lot of people, killed a lot of our friends in Paris and sold a lot of oil in NATO country Turkey. Am I missing something?

 

3. They write many of these reports each week, its an intelligence report giving an update on what the author believes the situation to be. Ut would have veen more interesting to see one from the last 3 months. It is not official US policy.

 

We already know what official US policy is. They do make these all the time and it would be wonderful to see one from the last three months but we don't have any because they are secret.

 

[*]Al-Qaeda drives the opposition in Syria

You missed out the Salafist and the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

So what? They aren't any better. Neither of them are the "Free Syrian Army" the opposition the west claimed it was supporting in Syria.

 

At that time I dont think it was surprising they were dominant as the other rebels were poorly armed and disorganised. Nothing suspicious in that point, its just a comment.

 

What is unacceptable is that the "civil war" in Syria was driven by foreign fighters deeply opposed to Western values and the US government knew it all along. Our political leaders lied and told us that the opposition to Bashir Al Assad was being driven by a moderate citizens movement lead by the FSA and that these people needed our financial and military support.

 

[*]The West identifies with the opposition

 

Yes ofc they did and do, but thats because they wanted Assad out, it doesnt mean they supported AQI. the opposition for them were the people who had protested peacefully and then been attacked by Assads troops.

 

Where did they get that idea from? Clearly not this assessment by the DIA. just how peaceful were the "peaceful protesters" if the main forces driving the opposition in Syria were Al-Qaeda the Salafist and the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

[*]The establishment of a nascent Islamic State became a reality only with the rise of the Syrian insurgency

 

Think its well known that one of the bi products of not settlung Iraq properly meant the conditions existed from which ISIS arose. Had they managed it better then in hindisght it might have been preventable.

 

The rise of ISIS was not merely an accidental by product of the power vaccum in Iraq. It required the transfer of large quantities of arms and foreign fighters in to the region.

 

[*]The establishment of a “Salafist Principality” in Eastern Syria is “exactly” what the external powers supporting the opposition want (identified as “the West, Gulf Countries, and Turkey”)

 

As an intelligence report it says if the situation unravels then there is the possibility... which shows its just conjecture about what might happen. This appears to be point 8c on page 5 and anyone else reading can look at it in context. It does say thats what they wnat but its more with a view to isolating Assad. It doesnt say its the grand design and us policy.

 

It's not the DIA's job to formulate policy. They just gather and assess intelligence and then pass it on to the people who make the policy decisions.

 

The establishment of a “Salafist Principality” was not only preventable, it was the predictable and predicted result of the United States and her allies support for the Syrian opposition according to their own intelligence community.

 

The DIA document is not being taken out of context. It states quite clearly that "the establishment of a Salafist Principality in Eastern Syria is “exactly” what the external powers supporting the opposition want." It's also exactly what they got.

 

I was hoping for more quality over volume and credible news sources rather than people making videos for youtube.

 

That's just what I could gather together in an hour. Which video from youtube did you object to specifically? Ben Swann works for Truth in Media and is seen interviewing the President of the United States. Martin Dempsy is a five star general and is seen testifying before congress. John McCain is a pro-war US senator and is talking on Fox news. Deutsche Welle is Germany's state run broadcaster reporting on ISIS supply lines through Turkey. Everitt Stern was AML compliance officer for HSBC and is blowing the whistle about HSBC laundering money to terrorists live on US national television. James Corbett is a journalist that I like and respect personally (so I'll stake my own credibility on his information being reliable) and professor Noam Chomsky is a professor at MIT and one of the most cited authors alive, whom I only offer to provide some background about US state sponsorship of terrorism that Matt Drudge may have considered.

 

These aren't just random people. Michael Flynn for example was the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at the time all this has been going on. Exactly which of these sources do you feel are not credible and why?

 

Id be interested in evidence which showed something impeachable or soemthing along the lines of iran- contra. I doubt ISIS need any money or weapons from the US as they have plenty of cash themselves.

 

That is exactly what this is and that's exactly why Matt Drudge has tweeted about it. This is just as well evidenced as Iran Contra and far more impeachable. ISIS have cash partly because they have convoys of oil trucks shipping oil from oil refineries to customers, most notably in Turkey. After a year of "bombing" the United States only just decided to attack this supply line for ISIS and it looks like they only did it because the Russians were doing it too. They also made sure they warned the terrorists to get out and run 45 minutes in advance.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331503/US-military-drops-leaflets-warning-civilian-truck-drivers-45-minutes-airstrike.html

 

I did read quite a few of the threads but gave up. Unconbinced at this stage. US weapons falling into ISIS hands is not enough, am looking for substantial amounts deliberately hiven to ISIS in the last 12 months authorised by the Whitehouse or undeniably linked.

 

My links aren't an attempt to convince you. I have thought that America was arming ISIS all along. What's important news here is that Matt Drudge said he now thinks so too and these are perhaps the reasons why.

 

$1.5 million dollars worth of oil doesn't ship itself out of Syria or magically turn in to guns. Oil convoys are visible from the air. You can see where they go and find out who is buying it and nick them for dealing with terrorists.

 

That's what they are supposed to be doing is it not? Simply not doing that would seem to be providing support for terrorists.

 

I've shown you three different airdrops full of weapons undoubtedly "given" to ISIS in the last 12 months. The Whitehouse simply will not make a document that says "These arms are bound for ISIS, please don't tell anyone...." Those documents will never exist. That's why they call them covert operations.

 

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2015 at 00:50 ----------

 

Most of your "facts" come from conspiraloon websites with zero credibility

 

You have no credibility. I'm poviding the kind of information Matt Drudge will be basing his opinions on. That's exactly what you asked for. Which statement given in any of these links are you actually contesting? What are you even talking about?

 

The people on the ground fighting ISIS aren't exactly professional soldiers Anna - I think the number of Sandhurst / SAS etc trained among the Syrian rebels is approximately zero.

 

You obviously didn't even read my links.

 

http://sheffieldchitchat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10904

Edited November 27, 2015 by rinzwind

[Longcol]

 

$1.5 million dollars worth of oil doesn't ship itself out of Syria or magically turn in to guns. Oil convoys are visible from the air. You can see where they go and find out who is buying it and nick them for dealing with terrorists.

 

Thanks, I needed a laugh

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2015 at 00:56 ----------

 

 

You obviously didn't even read my links.

 

http://sheffieldchitchat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10904

 

Presumably you post the same stuff on another forum. Deal of the big variety

[rinzwind]

Thanks, I needed a laugh

 

Sorry I should have said $1.5 million dollars worth every single day

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2805033/US-IS-earns-1M-month-black-market-oil-sales.html

 

At $40 a barrel, ISIS will be lucky to get half that. 1500000 divided by 20 equals 75,000 barrels of oil. A tanker truck can carry about 200 barrels. That means there are 375 tanker trucks full of oil every single day for the last two years driving for hundreds of miles out of the warzone. The US even know where the oil refineries are that the trucks start from! Are you suggesting the US military hasn't been able to track or prevent this activity? Why do you think that?

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2015 at 01:01 ----------

 

Presumably you post the same stuff on another forum. Deal of the big variety

 

There are SAS trained fighters and even The SAS, fighting, on the ground, allegedly against ISIS, in Syria, are there not?

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/595439/SAS-ISIS-fighter-Jihadis

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2015 at 02:50 ----------

 

So your OP was in fact 'some US weapons fell into IS hands.

 

No. My OP was that Drudge just tweeted "America has been arming ISIS". I think that's important because of who Matt Drudge is.

 

http://mashable.com/2011/08/10/news-traffic-referral-study/

 

Edited November 27, 2015 by rinzwind

[sgtkate]

Ben Swann provides a nice summary,

 

 

 

The American defence intelligence agency said in 2012 that...

 

 

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

 

The DIA report makes the following summary points concerning ISIS:

 

• Al-Qaeda drives the opposition in Syria
  
• The West identifies with the opposition
  
• The establishment of a nascent Islamic State became a reality only with the rise of the Syrian insurgency
  
• The establishment of a “Salafist Principality” in Eastern Syria is “exactly” what the external powers supporting the opposition want (identified as “the West, Gulf Countries, and Turkey”)
  

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-12/us-paradrops-50-tons-ammo-syrian-rebels

 

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/02/judge-nap-hillary-clinton-approved-arms-terrorists-syria-libya

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSOhICt7qg

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-bombers-over-syria-al-qaedas-air-force/5357471

 

 

Some more background....

 

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/the-roots-of-isis.html

 

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/uk-sends-5-million-to-listed-terrorists.html

 

http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/officials-u-s-trained-isis-at-secret-base-in-jordan/

 

http://www.landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/implausible-deniability-wests-isis.html

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/best-way-stop-isis-syria-stop-arming-isis-syria.html

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/12/politics/syria-arming-rebels/

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304626304579509401865454762

 

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/in-syria-there-are-no-moderates.html

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/syria-arming-the-rebels/syrian-rebels-describe-u-s-backed-training-in-qatar/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/i-am-not-fighting-againstalqaida-itsnot-our-problem-says-wests-last-hope-in-syria-9233424.html

 

http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175884/

 

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/08/nato-using-foley-and-isis-as-pretext.html

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed

 

http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/

 

http://rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/someones-already-fighting-isis-syrian-arab-army

 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/12/how-the-west-created-the-islamic-state/

 

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/nato-airstrikes-target-grain-silos-in.html

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed

 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/10/03/there-are-no-moderate-syrian-rebels/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TBH9f1Pk60

 

http://sheffieldchitchat.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10904

 

Some more background...

 

 

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1006045/possible-implications-of-bad-intelligence.pdf

 

https://www.rt.com/news/322305-isis-financed-40-countries/

 

Some satire...

 

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/moderate-syrian-rebel-application-form

 

Hope this helps.

 

x

 

Thank you for taking the time to do that. I'll have a read through and if they show that America is DIRECTLY and INTENTIONALLY arming ISIS then, WOW. That's pretty groundbreaking stuff.

 

Ok, so a brief read of some of those links and catching up on this thread shows that there isn't direct evidence the USA gave weapons directly to ISIS? But are we really expecting there to be if they were? This is part of the problem in the world is that if a government truly wishes to cover something up then they can and will do, and unless a v senior whistleblower or Edward Snowden comes along we will never know. As I've said before, I would not be surprised in the slightest if the EU and USA were directly arming ISIS in the past, much like when we armed Saddam Hussein and look how that backfired. I doubt highly if we are STILL directly arming ISIS same as we switched sides pretty soon after Saddam stopped playing ball with oil. Not even the US and EU government are foolish enough to risk directly arming ISIS when they are so openly fighting them. However, is it possible that they are dropping weapons to 'weak' anti-ISIS rebels in the liklyhood some of those weapons will end up in ISIS hands? Probably. Now for evidence of this? Not a chance I'm afraid. Where are you Mr Snowden?

Edited November 27, 2015 by sgtkate

[Berberis]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=drudge

 

http://postimg.org/image/489xo8m8f/

 

America's arming of ISIS is now officially mainstream news.

 

Show me where on mainstream news this is being reported and I'll believe you, but just because one reporter who is unknown to the majority makes a claim without evidence or context, that does not make it mainstream news.

 

At this point I would say this is either a conspiracy theory or a hack of his twitter account, nothing more until there is further details.

[Anna B]

Show me where on mainstream news this is being reported and I'll believe you, but just because one reporter who is unknown to the majority makes a claim without evidence or context, that does not make it mainstream news.

 

At this point I would say this is either a conspiracy theory or a hack of his twitter account, nothing more until there is further details.

 

I think sgtkate's post explains quite clearly why you are not going to find this on mainstream news.

 

You underestimate the machinations of those in control (I use the word lightly) of these things. Do you really think after various leaks that the Americans are not capable of such double dealing? Do you really not think that maybe there is a hidden agenda about which we have no idea?

 

As a friend of mine often says in these situations, if in doubt, follow the money...

[InigoMontoya]

Oh that's disappointing, I was hoping for some pictures of ISIS fighters using American equipment or something.

 

This is the most pointless thread since the thing with the dead wasps (sorry alchoblog;);))

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2015 at 16:58 ----------

 

 

Is he the guy who wrote King of the Hill? Man that was funny!

 

"I am approaching you with romantic intent"

 

Good times.

 

<Applause!>