tzijlstra Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think sgtkate's post explains quite clearly why you are not going to find this on mainstream news. You underestimate the machinations of those in control (I use the word lightly) of these things. Do you really think after various leaks that the Americans are not capable of such double dealing? Do you really not think that maybe there is a hidden agenda about which we have no idea? As a friend of mine often says in these situations, if in doubt, follow the money... It's funny how we all know Russia and China are full of propaganda, yet haven't got a clue ourselves Anyway, this story will develop and will get nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 It's funny how we all know Russia and China are full of propaganda, yet haven't got a clue ourselves Anyway, this story will develop and will get nasty. Who, specifically, out of people like robert Fisk, John Simpson et al is lying - either outright lies or by omission? Are they part of propaganda machine? If not who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy76 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think sgtkate's post explains quite clearly why you are not going to find this on mainstream news. You underestimate the machinations of those in control (I use the word lightly) of these things. Do you really think after various leaks that the Americans are not capable of such double dealing? Do you really not think that maybe there is a hidden agenda about which we have no idea? As a friend of mine often says in these situations, if in doubt, follow the money... And where do believe following 'the money' leads. As far as I can see the only people making money are the lical criminal gangs buying cheap oil from isis then flogging it on to whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Who, specifically, out of people like robert Fisk, John Simpson et al is lying - either outright lies or by omission? Are they part of propaganda machine? If not who is? Propaganda is bias in the media, it does not necessarily mean lying. There is an awful lot of news that we don't get to hear, think on the following for a bit: where does (political) news come from? If you don't want to upset those that provide you with news, what do you do when you find out a potentially destabilising story? A friend of mine is a simple games journalist, even in that world it is rampant - if you write a bad review for a particular title you can not expect the perks that are offered with the next title coming out (for example - go to Las Vegas for a 'presentation' - all expenses paid and a few hundred dollar thrown in for the tables... With political journalism that same pressure applies, but in a different form - if you upset X then Y will be upset as well, unfortunately Y has provided you with a few stories about A and you need Y so you are going to not upset X because the A stories are potentially bigger news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Propaganda is bias in the media, it does not necessarily mean lying. There is an awful lot of news that we don't get to hear, think on the following for a bit: where does (political) news come from? If you don't want to upset those that provide you with news, what do you do when you find out a potentially destabilising story? A friend of mine is a simple games journalist, even in that world it is rampant - if you write a bad review for a particular title you can not expect the perks that are offered with the next title coming out (for example - go to Las Vegas for a 'presentation' - all expenses paid and a few hundred dollar thrown in for the tables... With political journalism that same pressure applies, but in a different form - if you upset X then Y will be upset as well, unfortunately Y has provided you with a few stories about A and you need Y so you are going to not upset X because the A stories are potentially bigger news. I think games journalism (and any specialist publication really - you'll never read a bad gear review in a fishing magazine) is a different kettle of fish to politics in this country. Nobody likes the bbc for example - it's either too left wing or too right wing depending on who you ask. There are some stories that have been shelved over the years but they have come out eventually. If anything now where in a situation where 24 hour news services will fall over themselves to break a story without proper verification. There's not enough high quality investigative journalism any more but that's down to joe public wanting to about the kardashians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Propaganda is bias in the media, it does not necessarily mean lying. There is an awful lot of news that we don't get to hear, think on the following for a bit: where does (political) news come from? If you don't want to upset those that provide you with news, what do you do when you find out a potentially destabilising story? A friend of mine is a simple games journalist, even in that world it is rampant - if you write a bad review for a particular title you can not expect the perks that are offered with the next title coming out (for example - go to Las Vegas for a 'presentation' - all expenses paid and a few hundred dollar thrown in for the tables... With political journalism that same pressure applies, but in a different form - if you upset X then Y will be upset as well, unfortunately Y has provided you with a few stories about A and you need Y so you are going to not upset X because the A stories are potentially bigger news. So getting back to the thread feel free to enlighten us on the salient points of Rinzwinds many links. If theres a basis to what eh says what is it and how exactly is it news. Bo need for propoganda just provide some creduble evidence of whatever it is he is claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjea Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) If the RAF join in the bombing of Syria,alongside the US, Russia, France and apparently,others may join. How would this work? Would each force notify each other when and where they would be bombing,to prevent the possibility of duplication of aircraft in the same area at the same. I personally don't think anything like this will happen,and it will be every nation doing there own thing. Which could lead to disastrous consequences of aircraft being shot down with so called friendly fire. Leading to more who is to blame enquiries and more tension between so called allies. Which has happened in various conflicts in recent years. Edited November 27, 2015 by bazjea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 If the RAF join in the bombing of Syria,alongside the US, Russia, France and apparently,others may join. How would this work? Would each force notify each other when and where they would be bombing,to prevent the possibility of duplication of aircraft in the same area at the same. I personally don't think anything like this will happen,and it will be every nation doing there own thing. Which could lead to disastrous consequences of aircraft being shot down with so called friendly fire. Which has happened in various conflicts in recent years. How is that related to this thread? They have a protocol and are able to talk to each other to hopefully avoid making mistakes of shooting each other down. There wouldnt be a problem with the US, UK and France because they would act in co ordination and talk to each other/ share intelligence. It will be more formal and primitive form of sharing with the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjea Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 How is that related to this thread? They have a protocol and are able to talk to each other to hopefully avoid making mistakes of shooting each other down. There wouldnt be a problem with the US, UK and France because they would act in co ordination and talk to each other/ share intelligence. It will be more formal and primitive form of sharing with the Russians. Sorry if I posted on the wrong thread. But as Syria and Isis is what the bombing is related to. I thought my post was relevant. Since 2003 there has been about 8 instances of US friendly fire killing British troops and bringing down a Britiish Tornado Jet. Plus instances of them killing there own troops.I don't hold your belief that there wouldn't be a problem with the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Sorry if I posted on the wrong thread. But as Syria and Isis is what the bombing is related to. I thought my post was relevant. Since 2003 there has been about 8 instances of US friendly fire killing British troops and bringing down a Britiish Tornado Jet. Plus instances of them killing there own troops.I don't hold your belief that there wouldn't be a problem with the US. Friendly fire is just one of the risks they seek to minimise, but impossible to completely eliminate. They will have a system in place that has hopefully learned from errors in the past, its likely to be more sophisticated but humans are still involved. Heres an article on them testing the new system for the US and russia to aboid shooting each other. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/03/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-usa-idUKKCN0SS1XE20151103 There are no ground troops involved here for the UK, so you are talking about one incident. You may have read the recent report about the mistakes made by the MSF attack. Its happened in all wars. Its not a reason not to do something though. ps it was about weapons allegedly being supplied by the USA direct to ISIS as claimed in a tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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