Why are 'big' banks promoting Apple-Pay?

[sgtkate]

Some of them are household name banks.

 

Some years back I had a run-in with the who's who of the British patent profession (instructed by a card scheme member and some others, including a couple of banks, one which Natwest) over a card payment-related European patent.

 

They really don't like any 'unaffiliated' third parties gaining any sort of monopoly (however context-specific and -limited) in respect of card payment processing techniques and effectively encroaching into what they consider to be their private game reserve.

 

I guess it takes someone the size of Apple to start doing so with impunity (-for now).

 

Loob, can I ask what you do? Just sounds like we may do similar things albeit possibly with a different focus. Feel free to message me if you don't want to put it on here. Just curious more than anything else.

[Obelix]

I'd be interested to see who exactly contributes to PCI-DSS.

 

Oh I've got more than a passing familiarity with it. Drives me batty but it is fairly essential.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 14:30 ----------

 

Yes, and we're talking about online payment through systems that must comply with PCI-DSS aren't we.

High value contactless through mobile devices that require additional verification (ie a locked phone) is covered as part of the spec (I believe).

 

It is covered by the same specifications yes.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 14:31 ----------

 

Some of them are household name banks, but their contribution to rules is not so much technical, as by way of input about practical consequences of new/amended rules for acquirers and the interchange fees.

 

Some years back I had a run-in with the who's who of the British patent profession (instructed by a card scheme member and some others, including a couple of banks, one which Natwest) over a card payment-related European patent.

 

They really don't like any 'unaffiliated' third parties (not banks, not card scheme members, not 'headline' tech providers like e.g. First Data) gaining any sort of monopoly (however context-specific and -limited) in respect of card payment processing techniques and effectively encroaching into what they consider to be their private game reserve.

 

I guess it takes someone the size of Apple to start doing so with impunity (relative, for now).

 

Yeah - it's not Apple doing it entirely on their own bat you know....

[Cyclone]

I'm pretty new to the world PCI-DSS, as a self employed developer I work in many different areas, and the latest is the development of POS and backend processing for POS applications for a multi national company.

I've been looking at high value contactless and P2PE recently amongst other things.

[L00b]

Yeah - it's not Apple doing it entirely on their own bat you know....

Of course not, never said it was.

[alchresearch]

It doesn't cost anymore and Apple won't make anything from it.

 

Apple will indirectly make loads for it by tempting people over to their products.

[Cyclone]

Apple will indirectly make loads for it by tempting people over to their products.

 

Indeed, and I mentioned them being the first to market with the new feature.

They won't make money directly on transactions as Pete suggested though.

[PeteMorris]

Indeed, and I mentioned them being the first to market with the new feature.

They won't make money directly on transactions as Pete suggested though.

 

It wasn't so much 'as I suggested' more...I assumed they would make at least something out of it monetarily...Not thinking of the spin off in terms of bolstering sales of their hardware...

[tzijlstra]

No, the reason the maximum transaction value can be increased is that a phone has additional security when compared to a card. The phone will require authentication (ie unlocking) to allow a high value transaction, a card simply can't offer that facility (you revert to regular chip and pin).

The phone doesn't need a network connection, the POS generally does as you say for anything above a vendor configured limit, below which they take the risk of an offline approval.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 12:12 ----------

 

 

I'd be quite surprised if apple can gather any data from the use of apple pay.

 

I wouldn't.

 

From Santander T&C

 

We are not responsible for the Apple Pay services or any third party provider to Apple. Therefore, any information that is collected by Apple while you use a Digital Card or Apple Pay, is subject to the Apple Pay Terms and Third Party Agreements, and is not governed by our Data Protection Statement, the Santander Apple Pay Privacy Policy, these Terms or Your Account Terms.

 

Of course, Apple Pay does not have any Terms and Conditions, that would make it too obvious. So we get guided to the regular Apple T&Cs with no mention of Pay in there, they definitely use this data.

 

Another route is to see what Apple Wallet is about:

 

Uhmmm no T&Cs.

 

So effectively, by using Apple Pay you are giving Apple the right to do with the data whatever they want.

 

(I only spent a few minutes on this when it was first introduced and now to refresh my memory, I will happily be contradicted, but I doubt that will happen).

[GLASGOWOODS]

I wouldn't.

 

From Santander T&C

 

 

 

Of course, Apple Pay does not have any Terms and Conditions, that would make it too obvious. So we get guided to the regular Apple T&Cs with no mention of Pay in there, they definitely use this data.

 

Another route is to see what Apple Wallet is about:

 

Uhmmm no T&Cs.

 

So effectively, by using Apple Pay you are giving Apple the right to do with the data whatever they want.

 

(I only spent a few minutes on this when it was first introduced and now to refresh my memory, I will happily be contradicted, but I doubt that will happen).

 

58 posts later tzijlstra nailed it!.

[Cyclone]

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

 

Or not

 

Apple Pay is also designed to protect your personal information. Apple Pay doesn't collect any transaction information that can be tied back to you. Payment transactions are between you, the merchant (or app developer for payments made within apps), and your bank.

 

If you think about how it works, the phone is acting like a card (for simplicities sake), when you use a card to pay for something, the card doesn't find out what you've bought or where you are paying. It just interacts with the POS in a defined way. The phone works in the same way. It gets no information about what you are buying, the only information it really gets is the amount requested, and apple say that this is not stored and/or transmitted anywhere.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Cyclone