Should Cameron apologise?

[sgtkate]

Its easy. You say ISIS are making plans to attack us? I say thats rot and i find it funny people still believe this. I bet you believe Assad is the problem in Syria and he *snigger* gassed his own people.

 

I would have thought it's pretty obvious ISIS are planning to attack us. Whether is happens or not is down to their seeming lack of competence. Doesn't mean it justifies air strikes as this point though. How many people have died in terror attacks in the UK in the last 10 years? Less than 100? How many Syrian civilians who hate ISIS as much as we do will we kill in a single bombing run? Thousands? How can anyone think those figures add up?

[unbeliever]

Its easy. You say ISIS are making plans to attack us? I say thats rot and i find it funny people still believe this. I bet you believe Assad is the problem in Syria and he *snigger* gassed his own people.

 

I think you need to take this matter rather more seriously.

I doubt you have the background and expertise that your judgement in this matter is beyond question.

If you're not interested in convincing people with reason, or otherwise engaging usefully in debate; then why are you here?

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2015 at 09:40 ----------

 

I would have thought it's pretty obvious ISIS are planning to attack us. Whether is happens or not is down to their seeming lack of competence. Doesn't mean it justifies air strikes as this point though. How many people have died in terror attacks in the UK in the last 10 years? Less than 100? How many Syrian civilians who hate ISIS as much as we do will we kill in a single bombing run? Thousands? How can anyone think those figures add up?

 

 

I think it's more about weighing the people in Syria and Iraq who will suffer horribly and die if we fail to act against those who will die if we do act.

There's also the matter of what action to take, which complicates things.

[999tigger]

But is killing likely thousands of people who were just going about their daily lives until ISIS rolled in and effectively locked them up, a reasonable price to pay for our dubious increased safety? Lots of evidence showing that ISIS have blocked all exits out of Raqqa since they took it to ensure the civilians can't leave.

 

Noone has demonstrated that bombing Raqqa will make the UK safer, or do anything to stem ISIS. Even the Foreign Affairs Committee have said that and voted AGAINST air strikes. Syrian lives are worth as much as UK ones, and how we can condone the killing of thousands of innocent for a chance it might save a handful on UK lives is appalling. We want to take Raqqa? Full commitment then. Send in our troops. Lets stop taking the cowards option of dropping bombs.

 

Some interesting points.

 

1. innocent civilians. As per usual with the British they have onerous rules of engagement, so if they arent reasonably sure of a target they return home. They use smart weapons which minimise, but do not eliminate civilian casualties. Contrast this with the Russians who are much less restricted and use much cheaper dumb bombs. Unfortunately some collateral damage is inevitable, especially if you start siting yourself in civilian areas. You dont hear any criticism of Russia , just praise on these forums.

 

2. Dont underestimate the amount of civilian support ISIS has. Thats going to be a real problem for any peace.

 

3. The foreign affairs committee did not vote against, they just didnt endorse it.

 

4. How do you know thousands are going to die. As far as I unerstand it there arent additional planes, the vote is just to increase the area of potential air straikes o include Syria.

 

5. Ofc the UK and the Allieds dont wnat to send in ground troops to fight as thats politically unpopular and even more expensive.

 

6. Yes they need a plan, but that dosent mean airstrikes dont achieve anything.

 

7. Dont forget the UK has only 8 planes in the current force, so what it achieves is minimal and its mostly to show political support for the allieds.

[Stoned]

I think you need to take this matter rather more seriously.

I doubt you have the background and expertise that your judgement in this matter is beyond question.

If you're not interested in convincing people with reason, or otherwise engaging usefully in debate; then why are you here?

 

Ill tell anyone who will listen but not normally on internet forums. Fora have way too many thick peop0le on them to really make a sensible message heard. Thick people who believe the government and their bile. Im fine though as i know just what's going on in the world thanks to my many many many connections I've established in my working life. People who know me listen and usually follow my advice. People on the internet usually mock because they know no better but that's fine as i don't care about those people anyway. They are just strangers who ive never met, my family and friends are the ones i care about most and so i make sure they get the latest news and information to allow them to make an informed choice about who's telling lies and who's the one driving us to war.

Peace out brother

[999tigger]

Its easy. You say ISIS are making plans to attack us? I say thats rot and i find it funny people still believe this. I bet you believe Assad is the problem in Syria and he *snigger* gassed his own people.

 

So if we dont attack there will be no terrorist attacks in the UK?

 

So the plots MI5 report findinging and preventing are all made up?

 

Keep up with the emoticons.

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2015 at 09:52 ----------

 

Ill tell anyone who will listen but not normally on internet forums. Fora have way too many thick peop0le on them to really make a sensible message heard. Thick people who believe the government and their bile. Im fine though as i know just what's going on in the world thanks to my many many many connections I've established in my working life. People who know me listen and usually follow my advice. People on the internet usually mock because they know no better but that's fine as i don't care about those people anyway. They are just strangers who ive never met, my family and friends are the ones i care about most and so i make sure they get the latest news and information to allow them to make an informed choice about who's telling lies and who's the one driving us to war.

Peace out brother

 

Then go and find somewhere else if you dont want to discuss, just insult people.

[PeteMorris]

Yes he should he should also admit that the terrorist sympathisers are the same people who arm and train the isis lot namely America, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and good old Britain. He's also advocating bombing another country for no reason other than oil. Yes he lies and says he wants to tackle Isis but anyone with a brain knows that's a lie. Our government are a shower of ****

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2015 at 09:20 ----------

 

 

Yes we are. Us America and the rest have made this happen. The west is 100% to blame for all of this.

Where as Russia do the hard work and actually bomb Isis, the best the west can do is come up with a new name that slightly irritates some isis members.

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2015 at 09:21 ----------

 

 

:hihi::hihi: That is sooooooooooo funny :hihi::hihi:

 

I think you spend far too much time on the 'dark net'...

[Stoned]

I think you spend far too much time on the 'dark net'...

 

You type something like that and then proclaim that 'you think'? Oh the irony.

[sgtkate]

I think you spend far too much time on the 'dark net'...

 

Sadly, nearly all decent, interesting, polite threads on here seem to get brought down by someone posting drivel on both sides of the argument.

 

Stoned, perhaps putting things like 'people who know me listen to me, but people on the internet don't' should perhaps tell you that your manner online isn't contributing to people taking you seriously. Put a politely written, evidence driven post and you might find people more willing to engage you in a debate.

 

I'll help you with some starter points:

- Why do you think ISIS isn't planning to attack the UK?

- Why do you think we are supporting Assad more than just a temporary pawn in the game?

- What do you think we should do? Short and long term?

Edited December 2, 2015 by sgtkate

[PeteMorris]

You type something like that and then proclaim that 'you think'? Oh the irony.

 

Ok, I'll rephrase it...I 'know' you spend too much time reading tinpot conspiracy theories on the dark net.

[Stoned]

 

Then go and find somewhere else if you dont want to discuss, just insult people.

 

I've insulted no one. I've made a statement but don't worry I discuss this problem plenty. In fact im having people round for dinner tonight and Syria is one of the topics we will be discussing. Also Britain's plans to wage war on Syria and the middle east. About 20 turned up last time and we had a good old night with nice food and stimulating chat. Im rather looking forward to it. You are free to come if you are serious about being educated? If you are contact me by pm as i wont be visiting this thread again. Ive just go much better things to do with my day

 

---------- Post added 02-12-2015 at 10:05 ----------

 

Ok, I'll rephrase it...I 'know' you spend too much time reading tinpot conspiracy theories on the dark net.

 

Unless you know my name, who i am and where i work then ill assume you are a liar.