Oldham West and Royston by-election. Corbyn's big test.

[pacifica]

It's a very strong Labour seat. Bit hard to infer anything from the result.

Corbyn has neither created a huge resurgence of Labour support, nor destroyed the party.

 

Of course the 2 arent mutually exclusive. the opinion polls would suggest labour have lost ground over all, but they seem to have gained support in labour strongholds. if that is the case then it is the worse case senario. loosing 10% of your vote would bad enough, but if that is loosing 20% of your vote in the seats you need to win in return for an extra 10% on your vote in the seats you already hold, it doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

[banjodeano]

The Daily Mail is biased against Labour. I would not question that. They're a private business and it's up to them. The Guardian takes the reverse position. That's not a problem either.

The BBC is chronically biased against the Conservatives. That's unacceptable, funded as they are by a state mandated poll tax.

and i would disagree with that, BBC do nothing but slate Corbyn, on a hourly basis just about

 

 

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/nick-robinson-tackles-anti-corbyn-bias-at-the-bbc/

[Eric Arthur]

It's a very strong Labour seat. Bit hard to infer anything from the result.

Corbyn has neither created a huge resurgence of Labour support, nor destroyed the party.

 

This is you hitting the nail on the head. Oldham West wasn't a victory it was proof that Corbyn's Labour haven't motivated voters.

 

All Corbyn has done is flushed out £3 members who already vote Labour. The Great Satan Blair is the one who found them millions of new voters and Labour will need another Anti-Messiah to reform the party before they win another General election, which means that Corbyn has to go. It's just a matter of how long and how much damage Corbyn can do to their prospects in the meantime.

[unbeliever]

This is you hitting the nail on the head. Oldham West wasn't a victory it was proof that Corbyn's Labour haven't motivated voters.

 

All Corbyn has done is flushed out £3 members who already vote Labour. The Great Satan Blair is the one who found them millions of new voters and Labour will need another Anti-Messiah to reform the party before they win another General election, which means that Corbyn has to go. It's just a matter of how long and how much damage Corbyn can do to their prospects in the meantime.

 

There's no denying that getting people who already vote for you to vote for you with greater enthusiasm is poor political strategy.

[WiseOwl182]

Left wing logic? I thought it was the Tories who are using that logic to get rid of the right to go on strike?

 

Nope, it was the lefties whinging after the last election and attempted to redefine our democratic process to pretend the Tories had no mandate. Apply the same logic to this by-election result and Labour has no mandate to represent the constituency.

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2015 at 10:20 ----------

 

The result was all too predictable. Corbyn will strengthen the Labour vote in core seats like this, with a disproportionate representation of immigrants and welfare dependents. The problem is, the Labour voters will collapse everywhere else. Winning 150 seats with big majorities is not an achievement when you come a distant 2nd, 3rd or even 4th in the other 500. It won't win an election, it will gift the Conservatives a landslide majority.

[blackydog]

what do you want?

 

I want a government that represents everyone and particularly i want equal opportunities for everyone rich and poor, I realise this might be pie in the sky but you asked and that's what i want.

Young people especially are being left almost without hope by the tories, even after taking on huge debt at university they are still forced into zero hours contracts and similar dead end work. No hope of their own home and in many cases can't afford to rent either.

I see (and hope) Corbyn as someone who may force politics more to the left even if he doesn't himself lead a government.

[unbeliever]

I want a government that represents everyone and particularly i want equal opportunities for everyone rich and poor, I realise this might be pie in the sky but you asked and that's what i want.

Young people especially are being left almost without hope by the tories, even after taking on huge debt at university they are still forced into zero hours contracts and similar dead end work. No hope of their own home and in many cases can't afford to rent either.

I see (and hope) Corbyn as someone who may force politics more to the left even if he doesn't himself lead a government.

 

My Bold:

Equality of opportunity or equality of result?

 

Corbyn and his ilk want equality of result by redistribution.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, you have a lack of interest in quality of opportunity.

 

The middle is full of people who want equality of opportunity, but understand that it doesn't immediately or automatically lead to equality of result. This covers most of the Conservative and Lib Dems, and I suspect much of Labour.

[Eric Arthur]

I want a government that represents everyone and particularly i want equal opportunities for everyone rich and poor, I realise this might be pie in the sky but you asked and that's what i want.

Young people especially are being left almost without hope by the tories, even after taking on huge debt at university they are still forced into zero hours contracts and similar dead end work. No hope of their own home and in many cases can't afford to rent either.

I see (and hope) Corbyn as someone who may force politics more to the left even if he doesn't himself lead a government.

 

Yet people keep voting them in, because the Tories have kept to their own free market principles and also then occupied the left of centre void left by Blair, by increasing the minimum wage, reducing tax for low earners, making it harder for people to live forever on benefits, increasing overseas aid, improving basic human rights, increasing the number of jobs, ringfencing the NHS, etc.

 

These are all left of centre policies which have pushed the left even further left into the arms of people like Corbyn, Livingstone, McDonald, Milne, Abbott, et al, and destroyed Labour's chances of being in government for a generation. All Labour can hope for at the moment is for the Tories to self destruct, but if they keep it together the Labour Party will self destruct long before the Tories.

 

This is should be really bad news for the hard left but they always seem happiest when they have something to moan and be nasty about like the Tory Scum or Evil Blair, or Jews, rather than actually getting in a position to do something about it. Corbyn as leader is all their worst nightmares come true.

[blackydog]

My Bold:

Equality of opportunity or equality of result?

 

Corbyn and his ilk want equality of result by redistribution.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, you have a lack of interest in quality of opportunity.

 

The middle is full of people who want equality of opportunity, but understand that it doesn't immediately or automatically lead to equality of result. This covers most of the Conservative and Lib Dems, and I suspect much of Labour.

 

Equality of opportunity. If someone has an opportunity and wastes it well i don't have much sympathy, of course your expectations are heavily influenced by your upbringing, so some people may not recognise the value of an opportunity. Or even worse think the opportunity is above them.

I don't think i believe in direct redistribution as i believe you cherish something more if you have worked hard for it.

On equality of result, aren't we seeing too many in government because of who they are or who they know (usually because of where they are schooled) and not because of proven merits.

btw what does "MY BOLD" mean?

[blake]

It's a very strong Labour seat. Bit hard to infer anything from the result.

Corbyn has neither created a huge resurgence of Labour support, nor destroyed the party.

 

The Labour party are not like the Liberals. It's too big to just be vapourised in à few years. It's more like South Africa. Too far advanced to go down the pan in minutes, but going down the pan all the same. Under Corbyn's leadership Labour will definitely not prosper - at all.