natjack Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'll just leave this here ... http://www.secularism.org.uk/what-is-secularism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 They all live in Whales. Like Jonah? ...or was that a great fish? (A red herring!) They have to live some plaice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Sadly, there's yet another one joined the ranks...http://www.newcastle.anglican.org/news-and-events/news-article.aspx?id=5028 ... Which none of us asked for or had any say in (as is the way with all the Lords). Edited January 23, 2016 by RootsBooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Was Stalinist USSR not a secular state in your opinion then? From what I know of it I'd have thought it was a dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 China's not secular! I personally have met people whose families have fled China due to being persecuted for being members of a minority religion. That's failing the absolute basic test of secularism, 'freedom to practise whatever religion you choose'. The UK has bishops sitting in the house of lords yet we're way better than China for that kind of thing, hence why they fled here. The US is a far better example of a secular state. So many idiots like you and teeny think being secular just means 'no religion', it's shocking really. I am sorry but I like having God in my everyday faith as he wants to make things very much better in this world through us but if we leave God out of running the country we are Godless so cannot expect it to do well as without him at the head we are like headless chickens doing what we please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I am sorry but I like having God in my everyday faith as he wants to make things very much better in this world through us but if we leave God out of running the country we are Godless so cannot expect it to do well as without him at the head we are like headless chickens doing what we please. Well... no. An established faith makes all other faiths and the absence of faith, second class. Your god may be reassuring to you personally, and to others, but it doesn't help you in any practical way. Many others who pray to the god of Abraham are also excluded by having an established faith based on one of many versions of Christianity, which is itself one of many versions of Yahwism. Now don't get me wrong. If you're going to have an established religion, Anglicanism is not a bad choice. Being one of the mildest and most half-hearted of the many modern derivations of Judaism buzzing around. So I'm certainly not keen on switching to another religion for the establishment. But still the best model by far is to keep the state out of matters of religion entirely. Then everybody can pray to whatever deity they take a shine too and all deities are equal under the law. Doesn't that sound like a better arrangement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Well... no. An established faith makes all other faiths and the absence of faith, second class. Your god may be reassuring to you personally, and to others, but it doesn't help you in any practical way. Many others who pray to the god of Abraham are also excluded by having an established faith based on one of many versions of Christianity, which is itself one of many versions of Yahwism. Now don't get me wrong. If you're going to have an established religion, Anglicanism is not a bad choice. Being one of the mildest and most half-hearted of the many modern derivations of Judaism buzzing around. So I'm certainly not keen on switching to another religion for the establishment. But still the best model by far is to keep the state out of matters of religion entirely. Then everybody can pray to whatever deity they take a shine too and all deities are equal under the law. Doesn't that sound like a better arrangement? by that I am not talking a denomination I am talking Christian nation under God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I am sorry but I like having God in my everyday faithAnd I would never dream of taking that away from you. That's why you need secularism. It is the only guarantee of your religious freedom. I'm on your side here, I absolutely want you and everyone else to be able to believe in whatever they want, and worship however they want (as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of others). if we leave God out of running the country we are Godless so cannot expect it to do well as without him at the head we are like headless chickens doing what we please.In my view there probably is no god so consequently we're all godless you included. In what universe does our country have god at the head? The head of church of england (the monarch) has been stripped of all their power and we're much better off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 by that I am not talking a denomination I am talking Christian nation under God. Setting aside that you've sidelined the other Abrahamic faiths who also pray to the god of Abraham; not to mention the Hindus, Buddhists, Confucianists and countless others... The practises, customs, beliefs and rules of the various Christian denominations do not have enough in common to all be established as part of the state simultaneously. The Anglian church itself was formed when the secular leader of England fell out with the religious leader of England of the time. No you can only have one established church. You can't have a set of established churches which happen to agree on which was the last of Yahweh's prophets. They disagree on too much else. As had been stated, if you don't support equality of religions under the law you leave yourself in peril of one day being part of a religion other than the state religion and becoming the oppressed rather than the oppressor. Of course this is all rather mild in the way established religion is practised England. Long gone are the days when English Anglicans wandered around burning people alive for praying to the same god, the same prophets and even the same messiah as then but disagreeing on the earthly head of their church. Still the same principles apply. Freedom of religion for all means placing no one church above any other. Having an established church is at odds with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 There's a petition to remove bishops from The House of Lords: Petition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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