SnailyBoy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 by that I am not talking a denomination I am talking Christian nation under God. So how would a Christian nation support same sex marriage? The legislation was passed despite protests from the church. You'd be denying equal rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 China's not secular! I personally have met people whose families have fled China due to being persecuted for being members of a minority religion. That's failing the absolute basic test of secularism, 'freedom to practise whatever religion you choose'. The UK has bishops sitting in the house of lords yet we're way better than China for that kind of thing, hence why they fled here. The US is a far better example of a secular state. So many idiots like you and teeny think being secular just means 'no religion', it's shocking really. I apologise for standing on the hoof of your high horse. You should quote where your definition of the basic test of secularism comes from. I know it's only Wikipedia but China is quoted as a secular state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state#Asia China does actually recognise religious organisations representing Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Protestantism and Catholicism. Just because China oppresses Falun Gong doesn't man China isn't secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeny Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 So how would a Christian nation support same sex marriage? The legislation was passed despite protests from the church. You'd be denying equal rights. but church of England do accept same sex marriage which probably would be the church of choice as its state church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 but church of England do accept same sex marriage which probably would be the church of choice as its state church I don't think they do, they haven't changed their doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Like Jonah? ...or was that a great fish? (A red herring!) They have to live some plaice. Just as long as its not here:hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 You should quote where your definition of the basic test of secularism comes from.I didn't just google it yesterday, it comes from years of being a passionate advocate for secularism. I know it's only Wikipedia but China is quoted as a secular state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state#Asia That list is incredibly misleading and the more you look the worse it gets. The entry directly above China is Bangladesh, which is currently under the rule of a political party that have been described as the Hindu Taliban. If I said the things about religion I do and I was a bangladeshi I might well get beaten to death, and the police would do very little about it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/04/washiqur-rahman-blogger-killed_n_6980150.html But hey they're on a list of secular states on wikipedia. great news! China does actually recognise religious organisations representing Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Protestantism and Catholicism. Just because China oppresses Falun Gong doesn't [mean] China isn't secular.'recognises', oh great! Seeing as you opened the wikipedia doors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_China I'll quote the summary at the beginning in full: "Freedom of religion in China is provided for by the country's constitution,[1] with an important caveat: the government protects what it calls "normal religious activity," defined in practice as activities that take place within government-sanctioned religious organizations and registered places of worship. Human rights bodies have criticized this differentiation as falling short of international standards for the protection of religious freedom.[2] China's five officially sanctioned religious organizations are the Buddhist Association of China, Chinese Taoist Association, Islamic Association of China, Three-Self Patriotic Movement and Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. These groups are afforded a degree of protection, but are subject to restrictions and controls under the State Administration for Religious Affairs. Unregistered religious groups—including house churches, Falun Gong, Tibetan Buddhists, underground Catholics, and Uyghur Muslims—face varying degrees of harassment, including imprisonment, torture, and forced religious conversion.[2]" Two points: Any country that has 'officially sanctioned religions', no matter whether there's 5 groups on the list or 500, is secular. Secondly, any country where religious minorities face imprisonment, torture, and forced conversion is pretty much the exact opposite of secular. I'm sorry for calling you an idiot, but this is something I'm very passionate about and when people are completely ignorant about it it really gets on my nerves. It's one of the most important and best ideas humanity has ever come up with, secularism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quik Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I didn't just google it yesterday, it comes from years of being a passionate advocate for secularism. That list is incredibly misleading and the more you look the worse it gets. The entry directly above China is Bangladesh, which is currently under the rule of a political party that have been described as the Hindu Taliban. If I said the things about religion I do and I was a bangladeshi I might well get beaten to death, and the police would do very little about it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/04/washiqur-rahman-blogger-killed_n_6980150.html But hey they're on a list of secular states on wikipedia. great news! 'recognises', oh great! Seeing as you opened the wikipedia doors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_China I'll quote the summary at the beginning in full: "Freedom of religion in China is provided for by the country's constitution,[1] with an important caveat: the government protects what it calls "normal religious activity," defined in practice as activities that take place within government-sanctioned religious organizations and registered places of worship. Human rights bodies have criticized this differentiation as falling short of international standards for the protection of religious freedom.[2] China's five officially sanctioned religious organizations are the Buddhist Association of China, Chinese Taoist Association, Islamic Association of China, Three-Self Patriotic Movement and Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. These groups are afforded a degree of protection, but are subject to restrictions and controls under the State Administration for Religious Affairs. Unregistered religious groups—including house churches, Falun Gong, Tibetan Buddhists, underground Catholics, and Uyghur Muslims—face varying degrees of harassment, including imprisonment, torture, and forced religious conversion.[2]" Two points: Any country that has 'officially sanctioned religions', no matter whether there's 5 groups on the list or 500, is secular. Secondly, any country where religious minorities face imprisonment, torture, and forced conversion is pretty much the exact opposite of secular. I'm sorry for calling you an idiot, but this is something I'm very passionate about and when people are completely ignorant about it it really gets on my nerves. It's one of the most important and best ideas humanity has ever come up with, secularism. Since when has the awani league been a hindu party, let alone a hindu taliban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 by that I am not talking a denomination I am talking Christian nation under God. There are more than 40,000 different varieties of christianity... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members Do you consider them all to be included, and equally valid, in your "christian nation under god"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perplexed Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 There are more than 40,000 different varieties of christianity... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members Do you consider them all to be included, and equally valid, in your "christian nation under god"? 40,000! Crikey, I'd no idea there were that many ways of 'interpreting' one book full of stories. I bet they all argue that theirs is the 'right' way and the others are misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'm sorry for calling you an idiot....... It's one of the most important and best ideas humanity has ever come up with, secularism. Well I accept your apology but we'll have to disagree about whether China is secular or not. I personally am an atheist and support secularism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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