max Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Let's hope the day never comes when Islam has any sort of 'official' voice in the running of and law making of this county, or anywhere else in Europe, or the Western world generally. It has too much influence already. Such an oppressive and repressive religion has no place in the West. The Christians are bad enough, the other would really be the thick end of the wedge. Too late. The President of the Conservative Muslim Forum, Lord Sheikh, speaks frequently in the House of Lords. There are 11 serving Lords and Baronesses in the House of Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningman1 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 She: If she knew anything about religion in schools she'd know that the daily "acts of worship" are usually quiet moments to think about those lost in things like WW1, the Paris attacks, or the mass shootings in America (a weekly occurrence) You obviously know very little about religion in schools. A family member of mine attends a Catholic school, they pray 3 times a day, first thing, before lunch and at the end of the day. This is fairly normal in a faith school. I believe that religion should get no special treatment, for good or ill. Remove the tax status of religions for a start and remove all the Lords spiritual. Someone who actively believes in magic wizards, talking snakes, men living inside Wales and the rest of the laughable guff should be nowhere near a position of influence, power or authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If the Bishop has something to offer to the Lords, then we should find a way to get him there on merit. But then, this begs the question; what constitutes 'merit'? Do we have different ideas on what merit is? Does merit require a particular purpose, for it to have any meaning? For example, a ladder has merit as a tool for climbing walls, but a bucket does not; however, a bucket has merit as a tool for collecting liquid, but a ladder does not. So, what purpose (or whose agenda) do we have in mind, when considering the merit of a candidate for the House of Lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quik Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Too late. The President of the Conservative Muslim Forum, Lord Sheikh, speaks frequently in the House of Lords. There are 11 serving Lords and Baronesses in the House of Lords. They are politicians that happen to be muslims, I think natjack was meaning it would be worrying if instead of getting rid of the bishops from the HoL we add in official muslim lords to represent islam in the HoL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 But then, this begs the question; what constitutes 'merit'? Do we have different ideas on what merit is? Does merit require a particular purpose, for it to have any meaning? For example, a ladder has merit as a tool for climbing walls, but a bucket does not; however, a bucket has merit as a tool for collecting liquid, but a ladder does not. So, what purpose (or whose agenda) do we have in mind, when considering the merit of a candidate for the House of Lords? If we have a second chamber, then we require a means of determining who should be a member. We need to choose a method. Someone's merit depends on the criteria we choose. If a Bishop happens to meet that criteria more effectively than everyone else, then he should be chosen. But he should never be chosen BECAUSE he is a Bishop. The problem is that we haven't reached a consensus on the method to choose. This is a big failing, IMO, and shows lack of bottle by successive politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 You obviously know very little about religion in schools. A family member of mine attends a Catholic school, they pray 3 times a day, first thing, before lunch and at the end of the day. This is fairly normal in a faith school. I believe that religion should get no special treatment, for good or ill. Remove the tax status of religions for a start and remove all the Lords spiritual. Someone who actively believes in magic wizards, talking snakes, men living inside Wales and the rest of the laughable guff should be nowhere near a position of influence, power or authority. What's wrong with the Welsh?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 A lot of the values this country were founded on its Christian history. The last 3 leaders of Britain have all had some affiliation to the Church with the current leader rightly saying 'Christian values have become British values'. What I think is very important is the equality of all human beings. It is why the best forms of a secular government is one that doesn't deny the importance of religion- but embraces it so all benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If we have a second chamber, then we require a means of determining who should be a member. We need to choose a method. Someone's merit depends on the criteria we choose. If a Bishop happens to meet that criteria more effectively than everyone else, then he should be chosen. But he should never be chosen BECAUSE he is a Bishop. The problem is that we haven't reached a consensus on the method to choose. This is a big failing, IMO, and shows lack of bottle by successive politicians. I think that the reason why the HoLs issue has never been addressed properly is, that the HoCs worry that if we make the second chamber more democratic it would become a much more legitimate part of parliament. This would mean that it would end up drawing some of the power away from the HoCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) But then, this begs the question; what constitutes 'merit'? Do we have different ideas on what merit is? Does merit require a particular purpose, for it to have any meaning? For example, a ladder has merit as a tool for climbing walls, but a bucket does not; however, a bucket has merit as a tool for collecting liquid, but a ladder does not. So, what purpose (or whose agenda) do we have in mind, when considering the merit of a candidate for the House of Lords? Expertise in a particular field that would be useful to professionally analysis government decisions and laws as to whether they are sensible. Areas such as: planning education science business banking law charity (plus many more you can probably think of) should be included. If a bishop can demonstrate they are an expert in one of the above subjects then they should be considered for a seat. Their religion should play no part but often Bishops do have expertise in other areas, few go straight from school into Theology. ---------- Post added 07-12-2015 at 16:35 ---------- A lot of the values this country were founded on its Christian history. The last 3 leaders of Britain have all had some affiliation to the Church with the current leader rightly saying 'Christian values have become British values'. What I think is very important is the equality of all human beings. It is why the best forms of a secular government is one that doesn't deny the importance of religion- but embraces it so all benefit. And just like in America, most of those comments are purely based on trying to pimp themselves to the religious elements. It's a clever play. As long as it's not overdone, few people would NOT vote for someone based on them having a religion, but SOME people would vote for them based on the same thing...don't think for one minute most politicians are somehow born again Christians in their hearts, it's all a political game. Edited December 7, 2015 by sgtkate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Too late. The President of the Conservative Muslim Forum, Lord Sheikh, speaks frequently in the House of Lords. There are 11 serving Lords and Baronesses in the House of Lords. I think natjack was talking about the "Lords Spiritual" which are 26 CofE Bishops who sit and can vote in the House of Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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