Solomon1 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yes, it would be a nicer kinder and in some ways fairer world if human affairs could be organised according to these ideas Which is why we all love Corbyn! But they can't Why not? We and various other states have tried it so many times already and it reliably ends in ruin There has to be an alternative to capitalism Or we're all dead anyway! Give Corbyn a go, is what I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Which is why we all love Corbyn! Why not? There has to be an alternative to capitalism Or we're all dead anyway! Give Corbyn a go, is what I say If there is an alternative to capitalism, this isn't it. Nor has anybody put forward one that I'm aware of. The amount of suffering which will be caused by yet another attempt to escape capitalism is extremely high. No doubt somebody else will be found to blame for it when the time comes, but don't say you weren't warned. Capitalism isn't idealistic, it's pragmatic. It's simply what works. It can be softened by progressive taxation and collectivism only up to a certain point, then all hell breaks loose. Exactly how much depends on culture, but I guarantee you it's not a lot more that is already in place. You can't break the link between achievement and reward. And you can only erode that link up to a certain point. If you go beyond that point, with very little warning, almost nobody is achieving any more and you wake up one day dirt poor and wondering who's fault that is. At that point, look for a mirror. I wish it did work. But it doesn't. It's sad, but nothing like the misery that arises from trying Corbyn's alternative yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Capitalism isn't idealistic, it's pragmatic. It's simply what works It categorically is NOT working It is DESTROYING THE EFFIN PLANET!!! What happens when the oil dries up? When all the resources run out? How will capitalism serve you then? My very short-sighted friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 It categorically is NOT working It is DESTROYING THE EFFIN PLANET!!! What happens when the oil dries up? When all the resources run out? How will capitalism serve you then? My very short-sighted friend I find the link between capitalism and pollution which forms the premise of your statement to be a bit of a leap. I'm not aware that socialism reduces pollution. When whale oil started to be harder to come by, we switched to rock oil. When that runs low, in many, many years, we'll already have something else standing by. If you doubt this, I can tell you what we'd do if the oil somehow magically ran out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 It categorically is NOT working It is DESTROYING THE EFFIN PLANET!!! Because communist Russia and China are such pristine, unspoilt places.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I can tell you what we'd do if the oil somehow magically ran out tomorrow Go ahead, I'm all ears. Because communist Russia and China are such pristine, unspoilt places.. Russia and China are as unsustainable as the rest of us. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Go ahead, I'm all ears. Russia and China are as unsustainable as the rest of us. What is your point? You are blaming capitalists for ruining the planet..I was pointing out that other forms of political systems are not a utopia.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Go ahead, I'm all ears. Natural gas and nuclear. Much later, probably fusion. Usually you get people trying to get socialism in by the back door using green arguments. You seem to be coming at it from the other direction. Anyway, as has been pointed out, socialism doesn't somehow solve environmental or resource problems, if anything by stifling technological progress it makes them worse. Is the idea to install an authoritarian socialist government that will enforce population control and ration everything? That's a very short term solution. We have to invent our way out of dwindling resources as our ancestors did. You can't invent if you're not free to think outside the box. Edited December 14, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Moreover, perhaps we should also consider the reasons why his speech was so warmly applauded, both inside and outside the Commons. In my view, it had a lot to do with the attempt to destroy Corbyn's leadership. No wonder Tory MPs were cheering so loudly and the Conservative media were lavishing such praise on it. The last thing the Tories actually want is the destruction of Corbyn's leadership. They want him to remain in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Politics is essentially a high stakes game. Games are no fun if they're no challenge. Cameron seemed positively bored a lot of the time fending off Miliband's pathetic attempts. Put somebody like Hilary Benn in as opposition leader and the game's afoot. You may not like his position on stopping gangs of thugs murdering, raping and pillaging their way across the countryside, but he's a long way from the Tories in terms of domestic policy. Edited December 14, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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