Lets stop calling ISIS, Taliban and Al-Qaida, Muslims.

[Eric Arthur]

The oiginal recitals from mohammad to his followers are believed to be divine messages from God and it is believed that God is infalible, hence the Koran is believed to be the infalible word of God.

 

That is my understanding too and so far nobody has said any different, including the Muslims in this topic.

 

This is where it gets tricky for so called moderate Muslims.

 

If the Koran is the literal word of an infallible god it matters not what all these moderates and scholars say because IS are right, they are Muslims. In fact they are the only proper Muslims.

 

If the moderates want it their way, and they want to interpret the Koran to mean something different to what it actually says in the book, then it is either not the word of God, or the god is infallible.

 

It's a very logical and literal way of looking at it but nobody seems to be saying that it isn't the case. Everyone with a vested interest in moderate Islam is dodging the question so I assume that they don't have a proper answer.

 

I am not saying that Islam is IS's violent version, I'm suggesting that the whole moderate Islam shooting match is a logical fallacy if the Koran is the word of an infallible God.

 

If the Koran is the word of an infallible god, IS are the proper Muslims, and the moderates aren't.

 

Can somebody put up a decent argument against that?

[Nagel]

Muslim man in Sheffield asked what he's doing about ISIS

 

A 38-YEAR-OLD Muslim working as a land surveyor in Sheffield has been asked how he plans to stop ISIS.

 

Mohammed Rahman, who was born in Kettering and attends mosque around four times a year, has been informed that responsibility for halting ISIS rests with the Muslim community and that means him.

 

He said: “Tony in marketing came over specially to ask how I was fighting creeping radicalisation in young Muslims. They seemed disconcerted when I said my daughters preferred 5SOS, which I then had to explain was an Australian boy band.

 

“Pam in the postroom wanted to know if I was going on an anti-ISIS march. I said I would if there was one going on, and she pursed her lips.

 

“Then I got called into the management meeting to tell them whether airstrikes could be effective against Syria or if we needed boots on the ground.

 

“I said I didn’t know. They didn’t say anything, but I felt like I’d let them down.”

 

Rahman decided to make an effort by leaving critical comments under an ISIS video on YouTube, following which he was placed on MI5 and CIA watch lists.

 

From the Daily Mash

[betterman]

That is my understanding too and so far nobody has said any different, including the Muslims in this topic.

 

This is where it gets tricky for so called moderate Muslims.

 

If the Koran is the literal word of an infallible god it matters not what all these moderates and scholars say because IS are right, they are Muslims. In fact they are the only proper Muslims.

 

If the moderates want it their way, and they want to interpret the Koran to mean something different to what it actually says in the book, then it is either not the word of God, or the god is infallible.

 

It's a very logical and literal way of looking at it but nobody seems to be saying that it isn't the case. Everyone with a vested interest in moderate Islam is dodging the question so I assume that they don't have a proper answer.

 

I am not saying that Islam is IS's violent version, I'm suggesting that the whole moderate Islam shooting match is a logical fallacy if the Koran is the word of an infallible God.

 

If the Koran is the word of an infallible god, IS are the proper Muslims, and the moderates aren't.

 

Can somebody put up a decent argument against that?

 

One of the verses they often quote to to show that ISIS are not islamic is this.

 

"whosoever killeth a human being… it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind"

 

 

But it only part of the verse and doesn't apply to everyone, in fact it only applies to a small minority of humans.

[mafya]

Are there any more muslims out there who can give a genuine take on what isis really means to muslims here? (without being ridiculed!)

Mafya seems unfairly out numbered, and is left to defend against some strong and sometimes biggotted views.

This can only increase ill feeling, which, if we are to live together is counter productive.

I know many muslims, and as far as I am aware, non of them support this horrible,barbaric sect, but I have to admit, sometimes the condemnation from the muslim comunity can be a bit sparse.

Perhaps they are scared of reprisals from the radical minority, or perhaps they are just fed up with the backlash from Islamaphobes, but we ALL need to speak out against the evil that seems a serious issue in the world, so that peace and harmony can reign!

 

Most Muslims are against Isis and other terror groups, when Muslims do demonstrate against ISIS not many mainstream media outlets decide to cover it as is written here= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html

You are correct when say you bigoted views against Muslims can be counter productive and increase I'll feeling but it seems not many people realise that.

Most Muslims just want to get on with life llike everybody else......

[betterman]

Most Muslims are against Isis and other terror groups, when Muslims do demonstrate against ISIS not many mainstream media outlets decide to cover it as is written here= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html

You are correct when say you bigoted views against Muslims can be counter productive and increase I'll feeling but it seems not many people realise that.

Most Muslims just want to get on with life llike everybody else......

 

Its easy to understand why ISIS do what they do when the book they revere contains many verses of violance including these two.

How do non violant muslims interpet them

 

 

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

 

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

[Nagel]

You can find some pretty extreme verses in the Bible too, especially the Old Testament.

 

This recent video from Holland shows people's reactions on the street when some of the more extreme verses are read to them from a Bible posing as a Koran. It's in Dutch with subtitles:

 

[betterman]

You can find some pretty extreme verses in the Bible too, especially the Old Testament.

 

This recent video from Holland shows people's reactions on the street when some of the more extreme verses are read to them from a Bible posing as a Koran. It's in Dutch with subtitles:

 

 

Thats right.

 

Christianity is the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ, his teachings are in the New Testament not the old.

 

Islam is the religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah. The Koran is regared as the infalible word of God, which means some muslims ignore God or they don't believe the Koran to be the word of God. If they don't believe it to be the word of God they can't be Muslims.

[Branyy]

Most Muslims are against Isis and other terror groups, when Muslims do demonstrate against ISIS not many mainstream media outlets decide to cover it as is written here= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html

You are correct when say you bigoted views against Muslims can be counter productive and increase I'll feeling but it seems not many people realise that.

Most Muslims just want to get on with life llike everybody else......

 

Yes, but the minority of radicals is strong enough to terrorize the whole world. Then it's mostly up to majority to acknowledge the problem and do something to suppress radicalization. It seems that the majority is not strong enough... or not willing enough...

[lottiecass]

Yes, but the minority of radicals is strong enough to terrorize the whole world. Then it's mostly up to majority to acknowledge the problem and do something to suppress radicalization. It seems that the majority is not strong enough... or not willing enough...

 

Do not dismiss the fact that muslims are fighting isis now,the Syrian army is muslim so is the kurds.What do you expect the local muslims to do to help ?

[the_bloke]

I read this today and it affirmed what I already thought. That these groups are not muslims, they are cults and so attacking their ideology is not an attack on Islam.

 

I'm confused. These people are Muslims, they kill people in the name of their God, they follow an extremist ideology based on their faith in a way that most other Muslims find abhorrent. All the members of the groups are Muslims and their beliefs are taken from the Koran. Are we now not allowed to call them Muslims? Do we have to avoid eye contact with the elephant in the room in case we upset normal Muslims?

 

The Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of nutters following an extremist view of Christianity; are we not allowed to call them Christians for fear of offending normal Christians?

 

Maybe we shouldn't have called the IRA the Irish Republican Army either, for fear of offending Irish people.