Lets stop calling ISIS, Taliban and Al-Qaida, Muslims.

[runningman1]

So you are saying that all the Muslims not in Isis, Alqaeeda and the Taliban are not Islamic?

 

---------- Post added 10-12-2015 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

What the Prophet did was in a different era.

In the era of the prophet Muslims were killed by followers of other religions hence the kill the unbelievers bits etc in the scriptures.

The religion of Islam can be followed without killing non believers, like I said before its all about historical context which the cults like Isis etc and people like yourself can't seem to understand...

 

---------- Post added 10-12-2015 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

No...........

 

I understand it better than you. It was not the Muslims being killed, but they Muslims doing the killing. It was Muhammed who raised an army and obliterated surrounding tribes. It was Muhammed on the attack, slaughtering women and children.

 

Do you know anything of Muhammad's life?

[mafya]

I understand it better than you. It was not the Muslims being killed, but they Muslims doing the killing. It was Muhammed who raised an army and obliterated surrounding tribes. It was Muhammed on the attack, slaughtering women and children.

 

Do you know anything of Muhammad's life?

 

You know diddly squit as you have just proved, read up about when the religion of Islam was first revealed and the reaction of the believers of other religions towards the new religion and maybe you will learn more than you think you do.

Goodnight, sleep tight and don't have nightmares about Muslims...

[unbeliever]

In the case of the group calling themselves Islamic State, or some variation thereon, I could not agree more with the OP's title.

 

This is why I and many others, most notably those doing most of the resisting on the ground and those suffering at the hands of these butchers have taken to calling them Daesh.

This is important in the idealogical battle which accompanies the physical battle. Calling them Islamic State, the name they have unilaterally chosen for themselves, validates 2 important lies that they wish to propagate.

1. That they're a state, and 2. That they represent Islam.

 

The origin of the term Daesh or Da'esh (pronounced die-esh) is significant. It's an arabic acronym:

"al Dawlah al-Islameyah fi Iraq wal-Sham" which translates as "Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham". So it's descriptive.

It's also a word meaning "a person who creates disunity" and a homophone for "daas", meaning someone who crushes something underfoot.

This article is reasonably informative on the matter http://www.channel4.com/news/islamic-state-isis-isil-daesh-bbc-cameron-grayling

 

Listen to mafya. Moderate muslims are on our side in the battle against Daesh. You'd have to be a special kind of moron to want to change that.

 

None of this means that we should deny the link between Islam and extremist violence. Islam has a serious murderous zealot problem and that needs to be acknowledged, but that doesn't make murderous zealots representative of Islam as a whole.

Edited December 10, 2015 by unbeliever

[SnailyBoy]

 

What the Prophet did was in a different era.

In the era of the prophet Muslims were killed by followers of other religions hence the kill the unbelievers bits etc in the scriptures.

The religion of Islam can be followed without killing non believers, like I said before its all about historical context which the cults like Isis etc and people like yourself can't seem to understand...

 

 

 

Yep, another big book of multiple choice. You choose your chapters, they choose theirs.

[Jonny5]

What the Prophet did was in a different era.

In the era of the prophet Muslims were killed by followers of other religions hence the kill the unbelievers bits etc in the scriptures.

The religion of Islam can be followed without killing non believers, like I said before its all about historical context which the cults like Isis etc and people like yourself can't seem to understand...

It sure was! And what an era!! An era when it was OK to slaughter thousands upon thousands and marry a 9 year old whilst telling all your followers that God told you to do it and BTW did you see me split the moon last night?

 

What a great guy Mohammed was. The Errol Flynn of his time.

[Orzel]

Listen to mafya. Moderate muslims are on our side in the battle against Daesh. You'd have to be a special kind of moron to want to change that.

 

Moderate Muslims are on same side as non Muslim Europeans. This whole thing is not about religion.

But you'd have to be a special kind of moron to believe that calling them different name has any meaning to what is happening in middle east.

IS, Al-Qaeda and all other militant groups are Islamic in same way as Anglicans are Christians. Christians killed Christians at some point over religion.

It's just different denomination of Islam.

And it is all caused by foreign powers trying to control oil. Roots of this can be traced far back into history.

Most recent developments that have direct link started in 70s. To put it simply:

Iran revolution->Russian invasion of Afghanistan->al-Qaeda->gulf wars->IS

Anyone who wants to be at least a little bit informed about IS should look up some information on that chain of events.

Every single thing that happened in middle east has US fingerprints all over it. And it always was about control of oil fields.

Now someone else wants to claim that oil.

IS recently released this video

They want to mint their own gold backed currency(it is yet unclear how far they managed to take that), they are selling natural resources from territories they control, they have military and a strong leader.

Its not a band of camel jockeys with kalashnikovs any more.

But it is not about Islam, it is about oil.

BTW enjoy petrol prices falling below 1 pound.

[unbeliever]

Moderate Muslims are on same side as non Muslim Europeans. This whole thing is not about religion.

But you'd have to be a special kind of moron to believe that calling them different name has any meaning to what is happening in middle east.

IS, Al-Qaeda and all other militant groups are Islamic in same way as Anglicans are Christians. Christians killed Christians at some point over religion.

It's just different denomination of Islam.

And it is all caused by foreign powers trying to control oil. Roots of this can be traced far back into history.

Most recent developments that have direct link started in 70s. To put it simply:

Iran revolution->Russian invasion of Afghanistan->al-Qaeda->gulf wars->IS

Anyone who wants to be at least a little bit informed about IS should look up some information on that chain of events.

Every single thing that happened in middle east has US fingerprints all over it. And it always was about control of oil fields.

Now someone else wants to claim that oil.

IS recently released this video

They want to mint their own gold backed currency(it is yet unclear how far they managed to take that), they are selling natural resources from territories they control, they have military and a strong leader.

Its not a band of camel jockeys with kalashnikovs any more.

But it is not about Islam, it is about oil.

BTW enjoy petrol prices falling below 1 pound.

 

Islamic fundamentalists have been waging expansionist wars for well over 1000 years. Long before rock oil had any commercial value.

Islam is hardly unique in this regard. Gods cause wars. It's part of their nature.

 

If it's all about oil, explain why Pakistan is constantly on the verge of war with India.

I can offer more examples if you like.

Edited December 10, 2015 by unbeliever

[betterman]

I read this today and it affirmed what I already thought. That these groups are not muslims, they are cults and so attacking their ideology is not an attack on Islam.

 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/70000-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism-15-lakh-Muslims-support-it/articleshow/50100656.cms

 

Following the examples of Mohammad and obaying the word of God which was revieled to Mohammad and recorded in the Koran makes them very Islamic.

 

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SyedEbrahim50112.htm

Three Types of Muslims

 

By Syed Ebrahim

 

 

The silent muslims are those who are enlightened and are quite knowledgeable about the horrors, stupidities, errors, superstitions, inequalities, treatment of women, etc. written in the Koran and Hadiths. They have dared to educate themselves and seen the Book for what's worth. They are also keenly aware that three biggest crimes one can commit in Islam even in the 21st century are blasphemy, apostasy, and heresy.

 

 

The more they know about the true colors of Islam the more they become silent, quiet, subdue, less argumentative, and are afraid to speak out the evils of Islam even when it is before their eyes. He may be the uncle who refuses to interfere when his 16 years old niece is given away to a 60 years old horny Arab from Kuwait to be his 4th wife or he may be a father of a 17 years old son who just picks up their TV set from family room and throws it down into a trash can after coming home from a school of indoctrination ranting and raving that it was unislamic. Over the years, his character becomes a total 'hypocrite' trying to appease those around him while finding himself aloof and nonchalant about the situations emanating from idiocies of his faith. He would find himself more and more unfit in his surroundings but continues to live in constant fear of being ostracized or banished. They are everywhere both in Islamic and Western nations. And they are highly informed and are armed with an ability to 'think', 'question' and 'reason'. You may find them among the authors, college professors, doctors, teachers, and some members of Al Saud family in Saudi Arabia who are happy as free birds when abroad drinking and womanizing. Please note that I do not mean most 'silent Muslims' are utter hypocrites as the Saudi princes. But many do suffer from SS (silent syndrome) and end up migrating to the Western World.

 

Now let us go to the second group or 'stupid Muslims'. Undoubtedly they make up the largest percentage of the Muslim population today. While they have the luxury (or misery) of being born into Islamic faith, they refuse to wean themselves from the Mother Faith regardless of the overwhelming evidences depicting the horrors, injustices, and inequalities committed in the name of religion. They are least informed and most ignorant of Islam. However, they would stand firm in defense of their faith at any cost. They are also very prone to 'conspiracy theory'. For instance, after 9/11 attack when almost 'insult-to-intelligent' rumors floated around that 4000 Jews were forewarned and did not come to work at the World Trade Ctr. that morning, this group believed it. When Imams issued a fatwa last year telling the poor African Muslims not to go for medical treatment from Western doctors after they were infected with polio citing that 'Jews' were behind it, they believed it. If one tells them that Billy Graham slept with a nine years old girl, they would believe and condemn him for being a pedophile with a finger pointing at the Christendom. And next minute if one tells the same person about the Prophet Mohammed sleeping with a girl of same age, this person would defend PM with all kinds of cockamamie stories such as 'girls in those time matured fast' or 'she was all (physically) grown up', etc. As 'ignorance is bliss', they fall into 'I see no evil, I hear no evil' category. They would party. They would drink. They would swear. They would wear Levi jeans while shouting 'death to America '. They would fast. They would pray (most on Friday) They would say things like, "Jihad is only a personal struggle". They would wear hijab to make a statement. They would line up at the Western embassies for a visa to immigrate in search of a better life there. Most significantly, they are intoxicated with feelings of euphoria associated with Islam while at the same time frustrated with their 'left behind' economic status in the World. They wrap themselves in a pack of lies so much for so long they often lose sight of the reality. But this 'stupid group' can be helped under the right circumstances. I believe 'mutants' like Mohamed Atta, Shoe Bomber, Zakawari all once belonged to this group before graduating to a class of evil. On the other hand, people like your neighbors, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, cousins, friends, old and young all belong to this group. They can be 'yanked out' of this cult over the years through education and information, I believe. And thanks largely to internet which enables us to connect with Abdul of Abudabi to Haneef of Hanoi in a matter of second without a disclosure of facial identity. As a result, FFI would be one of many key sources to educate and inform the stupid group of the 'truth' while keeping millions of 'good Muslims' awake and worried for exposing their Islamic lies. In summary, the best way to describe that group is that they are stuck between the Mecca Islam (good) and Medina Islam (evil) with a tendency to lean toward Mecca Islam more while rejecting the Medina Islam when it suits them.

 

Now the last but not least is the 3rd group or 'good Muslims'. Be afraid. Be very afraid of them. Good Muslims are those who follow the teachings and traditions of the Prophet Mohammed. A couple of quotes that best describe this group are, “men never do evil more cheerfully and completely as they would do from a religious conviction" or “religion is the opium of the mass". In 1997, some innocent tourists including children were at the site of Luxor , Egypt viewing the ruins on a nice sunny day. Next moment a dozen of Islamic fanatics showed up at the scene, cold-bloodedly machine-gunned all 57 tourists while shouting, 'Allahu-Akbar'. According to one eye-witness, two kids were holding down to their mothers' skirts when brutally torn into pieces with bullets. After the killing, the Islamists boarded a bus and prayed at a nearby mosque. The Allah whom they pray makes Al Capone look like Mother Teresa, indeed. Many of these good Muslims have managed to move into your neighborhoods from Amsterdam to Chicago from Karachi to Cape Town . They move around conspicuously often with a smile and cheap cologne, greeting 'salam-malay-kum' to both fellow Muslims and kafirs. Though they know they feel like a fish out of pond in this Najis society, they know it's just temporary. Their true mission is, 'my land is my land; and your land is my land'. While IBM and Microsoft are busy trying to come up the thing for the future, they are preoccupied with the thing of the past. They know they are trapped in the past and feel duty bound to bring everyone 'Back to the Past' more precisely the 7th century period. They live and eat by the Book of 7th century and there is not a damn thing we can do about it. Like a giant mental sucking machine, they pray to prey on the 'weak', 'confused', 'troubled', 'pariah' as well as on other brain-deads such as doctors, engineers, computer nuts, lab technicians and more. They have their work cut out for them with the 'brain-deads' since the day 'Azan' was sung into their ears in infancy, and on with the systematic indoctrination of lies, deceptions, and fear.

 

Last week when Tsunami took the life of a Sweddish boy's mother, he was consoled by his relatives telling the boy that his mommy went to Heaven to be with the angels, we freethinkers understood that it was a 'candy-to-child' approach that works with a 6-years-old. Unfortunately, the good Muslims (adults included) take the 'Heaven concept' so literally that they appear to be rushing to the next world while transiting here at this planet. Evidently, they all look like they are just 'existing' rather than 'living' in this world in contrast to other people. The good Muslims have no qualm about killing other human beings with ferocity and barbarity. Take a look at the beheadings committed by them. The worst form of killing. Even the brutal Japanese forces used a sword for a clean cut during WWII. Those savages, under the banner of Al-Sunna (traditions of Mohammed) used a knife to slaughter. The World would not care if the good Muslims are like all believers loving their gods and goddesses, be it moon, sky or trees. But the history shows that their belief in Allah have turned them mad. The other day while riding a subway train, I overheard two black men. Their conversation goes like," man, I don't give a crap what they (Muslims) worship...."they can sit around all day worshipping a rock or ****"....."as long as they don't pick up this rock and throw at me....".

I am certain that is how all kafirs feel about any faith, i.e. 'just don't hurt me to appease the Lord' sentiment. Unfortunately, the rock is coming at our way unless we learn to duck.....before it's too late.

 

---------- Post added 10-12-2015 at 09:43 ----------

 

So you are saying that all the Muslims not in Isis, Alqaeeda and the Taliban are not Islamic?

 

---------- Post added 10-12-2015 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

What the Prophet did was in a different era.

In the era of the prophet Muslims were killed by followers of other religions hence the kill the unbelievers bits etc in the scriptures.

The religion of Islam can be followed without killing non believers, like I said before its all about historical context which the cults like Isis etc and people like yourself can't seem to understand...

 

---------- Post added 10-12-2015 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

No...........

 

Isn't that what ISIS, Taliban and Al-Qaida say now, they were attacked by Christains.

 

Mohammad claimed that Christainty is based on a lie, how would you have expected Christains 1600 years ago to react, welcome him with open armes and follow his word or brand him an heretic.

[Branyy]

I read this today and it affirmed what I already thought. That these groups are not muslims, they are cults and so attacking their ideology is not an attack on Islam.

 

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/70000-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-terrorism-15-lakh-Muslims-support-it/articleshow/50100656.cms

 

But that's how they identify themselves, they call themselves muslims. And their actions are done in the name of Islam.

[Quik]

Takfir on takfiris? Might get a little circular tbh.