onlineo Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Where do you get your figures from, they're wildly wrong!?!?!? http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1191.html You were many times further out than even the government when they were caught lying about the figures!!!! Wow that is harsh. I am talking about mo killing people and maybe my stat are wrong, maybe outdated but I was talking about hitting children not adults as in your stats and the key point is emphasised on the very website you link to. Where it says that risks increase dramatically every mph over 30mph you go. How mamy cars drivers drive above 30mph regularly in a 30 zone? I would guess 90+% but definitely the majority. So having these 20mph zones will hopefully keep vehicles down to a safe speed. Pref 20mph where the chances of killing another human is very minimal. ---------- Post added 15-12-2015 at 15:02 ---------- Where do you get your figures from, they're wildly wrong!?!?!? http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1191.html You were many times further out than even the government when they were caught lying about the figures!!!! Wow that is harsh. I am talking about not killing people and maybe my stat are wrong, maybe outdated but I was talking about hitting children not adults as in your stats and the key point is emphasised on the very website you link to. Where it says that risks increase dramatically every mph over 30mph you go. How mamy cars drivers drive above 30mph regularly in a 30 zone? I would guess 90+% but definitely the majority. So having these 20mph zones will hopefully keep vehicles down to a safe speed. Pref 20mph where the chances of killing another human is very minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Presumably at 20mph it falls dramatically again, maybe as low as 1%? Presumably although finding decent/reliable data is hard, most places have 30 at their lower limit. Various places around still quote higher % numbers which are from a study in the 70's. A few anecdotal bits and pieces showing an increase in death and serious injury in 20mph limits (I assume from people speeding though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah, there's probably very little data about accidents at 20. Interesting question though, are the accidents at 30, actually AT 30, or just in 30 zones? Presumably most accidents take place with some level of braking first, so the impact speed is actually lower than the travelling speed... ---------- Post added 15-12-2015 at 15:45 ---------- Wow that is harsh. I am talking about mo killing people and maybe my stat are wrong, maybe outdated but I was talking about hitting children not adults as in your stats and the key point is emphasised on the very website you link to. Where it says that risks increase dramatically every mph over 30mph you go. How mamy cars drivers drive above 30mph regularly in a 30 zone? I would guess 90+% but definitely the majority. So having these 20mph zones will hopefully keep vehicles down to a safe speed. Pref 20mph where the chances of killing another human is very minimal. Strangely enough, a 30 zone would be the one place I rarely speed. Speeding in a 60 zone, not so important, speeding in a 30 (that isn't miszoned like Pensistone Rd) and the risk profile is totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Wow that is harsh. Not at all, if you make a wild claim then expect someone to call you out on it. In this case you were dead wrong. I was talking about hitting children not adults and do you have any kind of data to back that up? I have a quick look and can't find any. Car design does specifically take into account a crash with a child, while I'm sure the rate of injury is higher it's no-where near as bad as you make out. How mamy cars drivers drive above 30mph regularly in a 30 zone? I would guess 90+% Total rubbish Now if you would have said: How mamy cars drivers drive above 20mph regularly in a 20 zone? I would guess 90+% Then I might believe you :hihi::hihi: ---------- Post added 15-12-2015 at 15:49 ---------- Interesting question though, are the accidents at 30, actually AT 30, or just in 30 zones? Presumably most accidents take place with some level of braking first, so the impact speed is actually lower than the travelling speed... Unless you were allowed to examine their ways of working I doubt you'll ever know. I know accident investigators can calculate in some way the speed of impact, but I think it needs info like skid marks on the road, distance the car travlled after the impact and stuff - so maybe it's not possible at 30??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah, there's probably very little data about accidents at 20. Interesting question though, are the accidents at 30, actually AT 30, or just in 30 zones? Presumably most accidents take place with some level of braking first, so the impact speed is actually lower than the travelling speed... ---------- Post added 15-12-2015 at 15:45 ---------- Strangely enough, a 30 zone would be the one place I rarely speed. Speeding in a 60 zone, not so important, speeding in a 30 (that isn't miszoned like Pensistone Rd) and the risk profile is totally different. I wondered this too. Do they calculate the speed at impact or the speed the driver was going at when they started to brake? Massive difference between the 2. But I would suppose that if you started braking at 20mph rather than 30 that you'd still be doing a lower speed when you hit the pedestrian. One area that does seem to get ignored, is that if people think the speed limit is ridiculous then the majority ignore it anyway, and I wonder if there are examples where DECREASING a speed limit actually increased not only the number of accidents but the severity as well. It will be interesting to see stats on the A57 after a few years as I'd say the average speed was 50 only due to half the people doing 60 and the other half doing 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I doubt that the changes to the A57 speed limit (in several different stretches) will have any positive impact on accident statistics. But of course they won't publish it if it's not in their favour, so we'll never hear anything about it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 One area that does seem to get ignored, is that if people think the speed limit is ridiculous then the majority ignore it anyway, and I wonder if there are examples where DECREASING a speed limit actually increased not only the number of accidents but the severity as well. . Well the DM ran a piece on just that, be warned it is the DM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317430/20mph-zone-increases-death-rates-switching-cameras-reduces-accidents.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Well the DM ran a piece on just that, be warned it is the DM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317430/20mph-zone-increases-death-rates-switching-cameras-reduces-accidents.html I think the analysis would concur with most people's anecdotes. I probably drive at around 25-30mph in most built up zones anyway, even slower past schools at start or end times. But then I will admit to perhaps not always sticking to the limit in 50+ zones. Equally, if the weather is poor or foggy etc I'll slow down. The problem with so many of our speed limits is that by definition they cannot be reactive to conditions or times of day and this is their failing. With modern tech, it can't be too hard to have speed limits that change, both increasing and decreasing, in line with other factors such as school kick out times, poor weather etc. I know it would be a massive undertaking, but why not do it bit by bit as areas come up for review. They can be managed on the motorways so why not in cities? some 30 zones could easily be 40s outside of key hours or through the night, and they could be made 20s when there are lots of pedestrians around. Just examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Well considering Penistone road is a 30 limit for much of it's length, and barely anyone seems to bother with that I can't see the council properly reviewing any other speed limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkleyIan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Would this be the figures that were debunked on radio 4s "more or less" that the IAM used and the Sun and other newspapers used. http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/PRel/bogusIAMrep.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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