Are there any Forummers who actually support Mr Trump?

[betterman]

I don't think I'd have a huge problem living in Turkey, probably not Indonesia either. Now Saudi Arabia or Iran, that's a different matter.

 

Would it be better for athiest here and now in the UK or in a UK similar to Turkey and Indonesia.

 

I don't think I would like living Indonesia.

 

Wrapping herself in a bright blue hijab, the 26-year-old climbs onto her motorbike and heads to the Islamic university where she studies community development. But Arimbi has a secret she keeps from her classmates, professors and all but her family and closest confidants. She’s an atheist.

 

While Indonesia is often celebrated as one of the world’s few Muslim-majority democracies, non-religious people say the country’s tough anti-blasphemy laws force them to live a façade of faith, masquerading as Muslims when many spend hours a day mocking religion in private online forums.

 

Doesn't look like I would fit in in Turkey iether.

 

Non-muslims, Ex-muslims and Atheists are getting persecuted all over the world especially in muslim majority countries where blasphemy laws have been enacted by the muslims to stop any kind of criticism of Islam. Latest victim, Fazil Say an ex-muslim atheist from Turkey. Weren't we all quite sure of Turkey being the modern muslim secular democratic country? Well, guess we are wrong again just like we were about Indonesia and Malaysia.

Edited December 13, 2015 by betterman

[unbeliever]

Would it be better for athiest here and now in the UK or in a UK similar to Turkey and Indonesia.

 

I don't think I would like living Indonesia.

 

Wrapping herself in a bright blue hijab, the 26-year-old climbs onto her motorbike and heads to the Islamic university where she studies community development. But Arimbi has a secret she keeps from her classmates, professors and all but her family and closest confidants. She’s an atheist.

 

While Indonesia is often celebrated as one of the world’s few Muslim-majority democracies, non-religious people say the country’s tough anti-blasphemy laws force them to live a façade of faith, masquerading as Muslims when many spend hours a day mocking religion in private online forums.

 

 

I didn't say it wasn't better here.

Just not so terrible there that it would be a catastrophe.

It's a hard life as an atheist in parts of the US.

[betterman]

I didn't say it wasn't better here.

Just not so terrible there that it would be a catastrophe.

It's a hard life as an atheist in parts of the US.

 

Do they get locked up.

 

JAKARTA, Indonesia — Growing up in a conservative Muslim household in rural West Sumatra, Alexander Aan hid a dark secret beginning at age 9: He did not believe in God. His feelings only hardened as he got older and he faked his way through daily prayers, Islamic holidays and the fasting month of Ramadan.

 

He stopped praying in 2008, when he was 26, and he finally told his parents and three younger siblings that he was an atheist — a rare revelation in a country like Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim-majority nation. They responded with disappointment and expressions of hope that he would return to Islam.

 

But Mr. Aan neither returned to Islam nor confined his secret to his family, and he ended up in prison after running afoul of a 2008 law restricting electronic communications. He had joined an atheist Facebook group started by Indonesians living in the Netherlands, and in 2011 he began posting commentaries outlining why he did not think God existed.

 

The atheist community has embraced the cause of an Indonesian man, Alexander Aan, who was beaten and jailed after denying God’s existence on Facebook and posting cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Edited December 13, 2015 by betterman

[unbeliever]

Do they get locked up.

 

JAKARTA, Indonesia — Growing up in a conservative Muslim household in rural West Sumatra, Alexander Aan hid a dark secret beginning at age 9: He did not believe in God. His feelings only hardened as he got older and he faked his way through daily prayers, Islamic holidays and the fasting month of Ramadan.

 

He stopped praying in 2008, when he was 26, and he finally told his parents and three younger siblings that he was an atheist — a rare revelation in a country like Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim-majority nation. They responded with disappointment and expressions of hope that he would return to Islam.

 

But Mr. Aan neither returned to Islam nor confined his secret to his family, and he ended up in prison after running afoul of a 2008 law restricting electronic communications. He had joined an atheist Facebook group started by Indonesians living in the Netherlands, and in 2011 he began posting commentaries outlining why he did not think God existed.

 

 

I know. It's not ideal. You don't really have free speech. But you're not forced to pray to somebody else's gods.

 

Still I think Turkey is doing even better.

 

And bear in mind, that a private prosecution was undertaken by a Christian group in the UK against the writer and producers of "Jerry Springer: The Opera" for blasphemy. The prosecution failed, but the matter cost the writer and producers a lot of money and turned what should have been a great financial success into an enterprise which barely broke even.

[johncocker]

Hating Muslims is the new racism no matter how you try and dress it up = http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/nov/05/islam-muslims-hate-ideology-racism

 

 

 

Hate speech has been out and proud with a number of muslim clerics for years in this country......

I don't recall you making any noise about that:suspect:

[unbeliever]

Hate speech has been out and proud with a number of muslim clerics for years in this country......

I don't recall you making any noise about that:suspect:

 

It's tricky isn't it.

 

Can one be against homophobia, sexism and religious intolerance?

[johncocker]

[

QUOTE=GLASGOWOODS;11237449]He had the balls to say something others in high place will condemn him for in public, but in private think he may have a point.

 

 

 

Trump's appeal is that he is dragging into the open the growing fear and resentment felt by millions of people, in countries around the globe. (France, UK, USA to name a few examples.) Many people feel powerless, disenfranchised even.

 

This political success (and it is a success) evidently is not unique to Mr. Trump and the USA, and is a reflection in part on the long-term failure of mainstream political parties, and the mainstream media, in facing up to these issues. That failure is decades long in the making, and the consequences we are now seeing were predicted by many. However, such predictions were derided, deemed unpalatable and went unheeded.

 

In my view the catharsis we are witnessing is unavoidable and, I hope, will have some good consequences among the bad.

[unbeliever]

 

 

Trump's appeal is that he is dragging into the open the growing fear and resentment felt by millions of people, in countries around the globe. (France, UK, USA to name a few examples.) Many people feel powerless, disenfranchised even.

 

This political success (and it is a success) evidently is not unique to Mr. Trump and the USA, and is a reflection in part on the long-term failure of mainstream political parties, and the mainstream media, in facing up to these issues. That failure is decades long in the making, and the consequences we are now seeing were predicted by many. However, such predictions were derided, deemed unpalatable and went unheeded.

 

In my view the catharsis we are witnessing is unavoidable and, I hope, will have some good consequences among the bad.

 

There's some truth to this.

Throughout the west people are looking for a third option. Often it doesn't seem to matter what the third option is, as long as it's different from the main 2 options.

[johncocker]

There's some truth to this.

Throughout the west people are looking for a third option. Often it doesn't seem to matter what the third option is, as long as it's different from the main 2 options.

 

 

 

We have to differentiate between Muslims and Islam. Of course I fully agree that the vast majority of Muslims are not hate-filled murderers and go about their lives peacefully, but the fact remains that there must be something in the doctrine of Islam which incites people to commit acts of violence, as almost all terrorist acts are carried out in its name.

 

What is needed is an authoritative interpretation of Islamic scripture by a group of clerics whose pronouncements would carry weight in the Islamic world, and there seems to be no such group. Whereas other religions have central authorities which can oversee doctrine - for example, the Catholic Curia - Islam has no central authority to denounce the teachings of Islamist terror groups as 'un-Islamic', and so seems incapable of reforming itself.

[runningman1]

How many people contributing to this discussion are aware that Non-Muslims are prohibited from entering Mecca or the majority of Medina?

 

So us Trump only suggesting what Saudi Arabia (arguably the centre of the Islamic world) is already doing?