They're all praying to the same god!

[Guest]

There are atheists with many views, the only one that atheism itself has is simply life without belief in any gods.

 

The proof is born every day. No child reaches a talking age and suddenly says "We should pray to Jesus Christ/Vishnu/Zeus, I feel his love within me" without external influences. If that were the case then there wouldn't be so many different religions and atheists, everybody would believe in God and everybody would believe in the same God.

 

I was born without belief, the first I heard about any gods was at school. The same goes for my son, I never spoke to him about gods or theism until he asked me one day after school (it had been brought up in a lesson).

 

You may well argue we have many reasons to believe but that's hardly an argument that we are born with belief.

 

Atheism is my default position, from birth. My absence of belief in gods isn't based on anything and makes no claims about anything, which makes the rest of your post pretty redundant.

 

Would you mind answering the questions I asked you in post #28?

 

But again we have no knowledge of this and atheism is an acquired state.

 

If anything, we can say we are more agnostic than atheist- if I had to pull in one direction.

 

Your question:

 

What reason(s) do you have to believe;

 

1. That your god, out of a long list of gods, exists

2. That he/she/it created the Universe

 

This is just circular- the OP did not even mention this to trigger my discussion.

 

It was more on his/her view that theuniverse had laws/somehow got there/science says God doesn't exist or something on those lines.

 

Your question is moot- I gave one strong reason on rationality, and have not had any solid and 'rational' answer.

 

This isn't even about number of gods etc. Its irrelevant.

 

YOu can say Kookiesminahadklal created the universe.

 

Call it god for all i care.

 

But point is we have to use our logic and rationality to understand the surroudings.

 

 

My religion does't interfere in that/or hinder my knowledge- its not even a discussion point.

 

In fact, it encourages me on to learn more.

 

Why do you think we have great scientists from the past who studied nature, astronomy, cosmology- because of atheism?

 

We only need basic food and shelter to survive. Not to study the cosmos etc.

 

This was done by people of religious backgrounds because many (especially the Muslim intellects like Ibn Al Haytham, Ibn Sina ) were spurred on by the intellectual basis of their religion.

 

The earliest Universities were all religious institutions that were built specifically because of religion.

 

Even the church, it was the biggest sponsor of astronomy since they needed calendars.

 

Seeking truth, knowledge, and studying nature are all religious ideas that come directly from religion- always has been.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Guest

[Orzel]

100% agreed!

 

I'm not religious but my entire family is riddled with Catholics! And there is no religious group more intolerant of others than Catholics

 

However, I have come across some atheists who really are very intolerant of people with faith (my OH being one!!) but I think they're a bit like ex smokers..

 

You seem to confuse their opinion about something with intolerance.

Do they go out in the streets chopping heads of fusiliers or shooting people in concerts because they are unbelievers/believer in different god/nonbelievers?

Intolerant people kill others over different views, tolerant people don't but are still entitled to any opinion. Smart people make intolerant people fight for their agenda.

Intolerant boss will not hire Slovakian just because, tolerant will not hire same person because of language barrier.

[betterman]

 

Seeking truth, knowledge,

 

Is a human condition, it doesn't and never as needed relgion, its simply a coincidance that people were more relgiouse in the past befor they gained some truth and Knowledge.

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2015 at 11:40 ----------

 

You seem to confuse their opinion about something with intolerance.

Do they go out in the streets chopping heads of fusiliers or shooting people in concerts because they are unbelievers/believer in different god/nonbelievers?

Intolerant people kill others over different views, tolerant people don't but are still entitled to any opinion. Smart people make intolerant people fight for their agenda.

Intolerant boss will not hire Slovakian just because, tolerant will not hire same person because of language barrier.

 

Intolerance can manifest itself in a wide range of actions from avoidance through hate speech to physical injury or even murder.

[sgtkate]

But again we have no knowledge of this and atheism is an acquired state.

 

 

Atheism is an acquired state? So perhaps it's more technically correct to state all children are born agnostic in that quite frankly they care a great deal more about cuddles and breast milk than they do about pondering whether or not God exists, and I'd say to be an atheist you have to have thought about it and said, 'nah, it's all drivel', and to do that you need rational thought which babies cannot possess.

[Chelle-82]

Can you give examples of the intolerance towards people with faith you've come across?

 

Of course!

 

My OH doesn't believe in god and he comes from an Irish Catholic family, he thinks anyone who believes in any sort of deity is just a sheep following an imaginary Sheppard. He believes in evolution and science and anyone who thinks otherwise are lacking intelligence! Seriously!!

 

At my grandfathers funeral last year my uncle, who is atheist decided to tell all the family members at the wake that there was no afterlife and that my granddad is just basically laid under soil - he got the face on because he wanted him cremated!! anyway my older aunts were in tears! it was just rude and there's a time and place... mind you, every family has an uncle ***head

[sgtkate]

You seem to confuse their opinion about something with intolerance.

Do they go out in the streets chopping heads of fusiliers or shooting people in concerts because they are unbelievers/believer in different god/nonbelievers?

Intolerant people kill others over different views, tolerant people don't but are still entitled to any opinion. Smart people make intolerant people fight for their agenda.

Intolerant boss will not hire Slovakian just because, tolerant will not hire same person because of language barrier.

 

That's an interesting point, specifically the last line, because to be totally tolerant would be to hire the Slovakian regardless of his English skills. This is why I do love SF as sometimes there are some very thought-provoking comments.

[betterman]

Atheism is an acquired state? So perhaps it's more technically correct to state all children are born agnostic in that quite frankly they care a great deal more about cuddles and breast milk than they do about pondering whether or not God exists, and I'd say to be an atheist you have to have thought about it and said, 'nah, it's all drivel', and to do that you need rational thought which babies cannot possess.

 

Agnostics need to have given it some thought and whilst most athiest will also have given it some thought, it isn't necesary. If you don't belief that God exists you are an athiest and I doubt very much that babies believe that God exists.

[Chelle-82]

In what way?

 

Ex smokers are worse than people who have never smoked! Their intolerance of folk who still smoke is just unbearable!! this of course is just my opinion from what I have come across..

 

We know smoking is bad, and well done for giving it up but leave others to do as they please!

 

---------- Post added 16-12-2015 at 11:46 ----------

 

You seem to confuse their opinion about something with intolerance.

Do they go out in the streets chopping heads of fusiliers or shooting people in concerts because they are unbelievers/believer in different god/nonbelievers?

Intolerant people kill others over different views, tolerant people don't but are still entitled to any opinion. Smart people make intolerant people fight for their agenda.

Intolerant boss will not hire Slovakian just because, tolerant will not hire same person because of language barrier.

 

intolerance comes in many forms!

[sgtkate]

Agnostics need to have given it some thought and whilst most athiest will also have given it some thought, it isn't necesary. If you don't belief that God exists you are an athiest and I doubt very much that babies believe that God exists.

 

But thinking about babies as that was the specific point, do you believe it's even vaguely possible (let's pretend God exists for a moment) that babies are born 'believing' or does belief require some cognitive thinking processes beyond natural survival instinct that babies have?

[SnailyBoy]

Of course!

 

My OH doesn't believe in god and he comes from an Irish Catholic family, he thinks anyone who believes in any sort of deity is just a sheep following an imaginary Sheppard. He believes in evolution and science and anyone who thinks otherwise are lacking intelligence! Seriously!!

 

At my grandfathers funeral last year my uncle, who is atheist decided to tell all the family members at the wake that there was no afterlife and that my granddad is just basically laid under soil - he got the face on because he wanted him cremated!! anyway my older aunts were in tears! it was just rude and there's a time and place... mind you, every family has an uncle ***head

 

I agree, that really wasn't the place for that discussion.

 

There is a distinction though between a belief and a person who holds that belief.

 

Ironically, the Catholic church does accept evolution.