They're all praying to the same god!

[RootsBooster]

No it doesn't. You don't get "high on God", unless you're Ned Flanders.

 

Tell that to these folk...

[Guest]

Over the past hundred years in particular it's become increasingly clear that the Universe is not subject to interference from deities. It runs on rules. We know not everything, but an awful lot about what those rules are.

 

So...where do theses rules come from? Before you jump into what these rules are- where did they spring from, given that we know energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

So before jumping ahead, where are the laws of quantum mechanics themselves supposed to have come from?

 

Just to save time on the thread- if you are going to then say "we don't know yet" well then its back to square one.

[flamingjimmy]

So...where do theses rules come from? Before you jump into what these rules are- where did they spring from, given that we know energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

So before jumping ahead, where are the laws of quantum mechanics themselves supposed to have come from?

 

Just to save time on the thread- if you are going to then say "we don't know yet" well then its back to square one.

 

Where did your god come from?

 

If you're answer is your god exists without needing to be created then so can the laws of the universe. If not why not?

 

Anyone wanna take me up on a bet that Mr Fisk does not directly answer the questions above? £10?

 

Also what's wrong with saying 'we don't know yet'? We're a long way from square one and that doesn't take us back there.

Edited December 15, 2015 by flamingjimmy

[Guest]

Where did your god come from?

 

If you're answer is your god exists without needing to be created then so can the laws of the universe. If not why not?

 

Anyone wanna take me up on a bet that Mr Fisk does not directly answer the questions above? £10?

 

Also what's wrong with saying 'we don't know yet'? We're a long way from square one and that doesn't take us back there.

 

(I don't want your tenner)

 

However, you fail on hurdle one- we know the universe had a cause.

 

The universe came in to existence so it would need the laws to do this- so these laws don't just spring up.

 

Okay if 'we' don't know yet and I am not even of the 'goddit' school.

 

I am a man of reason and rational deduction.

 

Presumably the OP has read or been influenced by Lawrance Krass and his book 'A Universe from Nothing' but it has plenty of holes in it.

 

He first defines something (quantum space) to mean nothing. Then he says the universe came out of nothing. I mean, really, REALLY? He expects people to take him seriously? Even his fellow physicists make fun of him.

 

The question of 'where did God come from' isn't even a question once you study the principles of causation.

In addition, non theists/atheists make the common mistake of making God a material being.

[unbeliever]

So...where do theses rules come from? Before you jump into what these rules are- where did they spring from, given that we know energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

So before jumping ahead, where are the laws of quantum mechanics themselves supposed to have come from?

 

Just to save time on the thread- if you are going to then say "we don't know yet" well then its back to square one.

 

What makes you think that rules are made of energy?

[Guest]

What makes you think that rules are made of energy?

 

Lets first get to the point of where these rules spring up from- we both accept the universe is bound by laws.

 

I'm genuinely interested and quite happy to engage.

[projection]

god/creator created the creator because everything created has a creator, god is the creator of everything including its self, science says the big bang, but what created the big bang? god/creator did because it was a creation

 

where did it begin? with god/creator of course, god/creator is everything because god/creator is part of the creation. who says it has to begin maybe its always been there.

 

to keep your faith in god is to keep your faith in everything and that obviously includes ourselves which is the most important bit because we are in charge of life e.g we get to decide if we and everything else exist.

 

take away us humans and what do we have from a learning what everything means point of view? nothing. we made it all up to fit in with how we learn. so if everything stayed the same and we never existed what would it be? nothing.

[RootsBooster]

So...where do theses rules come from? Before you jump into what these rules are- where did they spring from, given that we know energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

So before jumping ahead, where are the laws of quantum mechanics themselves supposed to have come from?

 

Just to save time on the thread- if you are going to then say "we don't know yet" well then its back to square one.

 

I know Unbeliever is fairly well up on his physics so I'll let him answer for himself. The issue I see with your post is that you seem to be saying if we don't know, then that justifies jumping to extremely unlikely conclusions (such as one of the thousands of supernatural beings, that people have believed in, creating everything - the convenient god of the gaps).

[unbeliever]

Lets first get to the point of where these rules spring up from- we both accept the universe is bound by laws.

 

I'm genuinely interested and quite happy to engage.

 

I'm inclined to invoke the strong anthropic principle.

 

It seems likely to me that Universes pop into existence all the time with all sorts of rules, but most are not stable or interesting.

 

It's also possible that new universes spawn from old ones inheriting similar but not identical rules. In that way a stable universe would evolve in an analogous way to a successful life form.

 

It's clear however that a zero energy universe is a far more plausible thing to pop into existence than a creator god.

[Vague_Boy]

So...where do theses rules come from?

Why do they have to "come from" anywhere? The need for a creator who imposes these rules is a human conceit.

 

Where did this creator/rule maker come from?

 

given that we know energy cannot be created or destroyed.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

 

If you're going to have a pop at science, do try and learn what it is you're criticizing.

 

 

Just to save time on the thread- if you are going to then say "we don't know yet" well then its back to square one.

 

“Science knows it doesn't know everything; otherwise, it'd stop. But just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy tale most appeals to you.”

Dara Ó Briain