Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[Annie Bynnol]

6 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Early this year I saw detailed options plans for the West Yorkshire elements of NPR and discussed them with the teams who were designing it. Looked considerably more than a "crayon doodle".

 

 

Yes, because they are bigger and more vibrant than Sheffield

The latest NPR million pound report was superseded before it was published by Government decisions on HS2 north of the Trent and the withdrawal of £1billion of real and  allocated Government money. 

This completely change any proposals for Sheffield but of course even a cursory view of the "map" shows that Sheffield is not an integral part of the Doodle.

 

The Manchester centric"map" is a crayon doodle- what kind of engineer would draw route from Marsden to Leeds via Bradford and come up with a cost of £17billion and  no idea of where the station is in Bradford? Or a fast train route from Sheffield to Hull via Selby? 

 

You cannot move hills, valleys and you cannot move cities and you cannot have a high speed rail over the short distances that apply in our area. 

You cannot run freight, stopping and inter city services along the same route and expect efficiency and reliability.

But

Sheffield still needs good connections with London  Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham/Derby and Doncaster/York, Lincoln, Grimsby/Hull.

The original HS2 (particularly if focused at a Meadowhall station and junction with traditional rail) plans would mostly resolve these except Manchester which could be reduced to a 35 minutes and 3TPH using a current route within 5 years. It will be unattractive, it will be disruptive and will cost an awful lot. 

 

Every Government has been willing to release relatively small amounts of development money and groups of local authorities have been willing to  recreate the same solutions.  Failure to plan effectively leads to nightmares like Crossrail, Ordsall Curve and the WCML modernisation.

 

Like its many predecessors, NPR has a Manchester or Manchester/Leeds focus and is detrimental  to Sheffield's interests,

  

 

 

[DameClara]

Is there a recognition that Bradford is not a through station but a dead end so trains go in and out on the same rails?

[Annie Bynnol]

2 hours ago, DameClara said:

Is there a recognition that Bradford is not a through station but a dead end so trains go in and out on the same rails?

Bradford is a mess it has two terminus stations which are aligned north/south with both providing services to London  and Leeds.

One  "crayon" line  goes from  west/east and therefore the options are multiple and expensive. Bradford will share the same fate as Sheffield, they will be avoided and will have the slowest routes to London and other cities in the North and nationally.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Annie Bynnol

[sadbrewer]

On 17/12/2020 at 20:24, Annie Bynnol said:

The latest NPR million pound report was superseded before it was published by Government decisions on HS2 north of the Trent and the withdrawal of £1billion of real and  allocated Government money. 

This completely change any proposals for Sheffield but of course even a cursory view of the "map" shows that Sheffield is not an integral part of the Doodle.

 

The Manchester centric"map" is a crayon doodle- what kind of engineer would draw route from Marsden to Leeds via Bradford and come up with a cost of £17billion and  no idea of where the station is in Bradford? Or a fast train route from Sheffield to Hull via Selby? 

 

You cannot move hills, valleys and you cannot move cities and you cannot have a high speed rail over the short distances that apply in our area. 

You cannot run freight, stopping and inter city services along the same route and expect efficiency and reliability.

But

Sheffield still needs good connections with London  Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham/Derby and Doncaster/York, Lincoln, Grimsby/Hull.

The original HS2 (particularly if focused at a Meadowhall station and junction with traditional rail) plans would mostly resolve these except Manchester which could be reduced to a 35 minutes and 3TPH using a current route within 5 years. It will be unattractive, it will be disruptive and will cost an awful lot. 

 

Every Government has been willing to release relatively small amounts of development money and groups of local authorities have been willing to  recreate the same solutions.  Failure to plan effectively leads to nightmares like Crossrail, Ordsall Curve and the WCML modernisation.

 

Like its many predecessors, NPR has a Manchester or Manchester/Leeds focus and is detrimental  to Sheffield's interests,

  

 

 

True to an extent, but South Yorkshire, and Sheffield in particular had the Meadowhall option on a plate until SCC decided to actively campaign against it.

[Annie Bynnol]

8 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

True to an extent, but South Yorkshire, and Sheffield in particular had the Meadowhall option on a plate until SCC decided to actively campaign against it.

The government ended up with two preferred routes:

Nunnery/Victoria -preferred by SCC as it would help development of the area.

Meadowhall - preferred by the railway and the government as it was cheaper and allowed for easier links to the North.

 

The government opted for Meadowhall and a period of detailed planning took place but after a financial review the government introduced a cheaper route with Sheffield (Midland) station connected to HS2 at Clay Cross- this was not supported by SCC.

 

Yet another review has delayed and changed the eastern leg of HS2  so that it connects to the current network somewhere between East Midlands Parkway and the Trent Junctions. 

 

 

[Jeffrey Shaw]

On 17/12/2020 at 16:09, sedith said:

All this would be a one way transport from Leeds to Kings Cross/Euston/St Pancras.

Er, that just cannot be so. If all traffic were southbound and nobody ever went northbound, well- where would all those people live in London and would they all sell their houses/flats in the north? What goes down must go up- and whoever goes down south must equally go up north. The numbers have to equal each other, surely!

[prince al]

Can’t wait! Get it on!

[sedith]

4 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Er, that just cannot be so. If all traffic were southbound and nobody ever went northbound, well- where would all those people live in London and would they all sell their houses/flats in the north? What goes down must go up- and whoever goes down south must equally go up north. The numbers have to equal each other, surely!

How can the country afford HS2 after this pandemic ...  there is absolutely no need for workers to go into the office. I came down the south west  8 yrs ago but rarely go back up north. Apart from family commitments, no need to visit?

[Annie Bynnol]

13 hours ago, sedith said:

How can the country afford HS2 after this pandemic ...  there is absolutely no need for workers to go into the office. I came down the south west  8 yrs ago but rarely go back up north. Apart from family commitments, no need to visit?

The South West is/has benefitted  enormously from recent multi £billion  investment at the expense of the North and especially Sheffield.

The South West region has had Billions of pounds spent on:

all new rolling stock including Bi modes

GWR electrification, signalling, junction, stations, tunnels etc.,etc.

benefits from Crossrail

MML electrification was listed to be done first as it was financially sensible, but politics  won and the southern politicians  got their way. 

[BigAl1]

21 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The South West is/has benefitted  enormously from recent multi £billion  investment at the expense of the North and especially Sheffield.

The South West region has had Billions of pounds spent on:

all new rolling stock including Bi modes

GWR electrification, signalling, junction, stations, tunnels etc.,etc.

benefits from Crossrail

MML electrification was listed to be done first as it was financially sensible, but politics  won and the southern politicians  got their way. 

Annie I would be very interested to see the evidence that the SW has benefited enormously from the investment in the railway to the SW that you are using - I seem to recall that the new trains did not go into full service to the SW until the end of 2018.