Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[foxy lady]

There is no HS2 route between Manchester and Sheffield unless you went down to Birmingham, changed and then went up to Manchester- which would be silly.

 

Your basic geography seems confused about the location and size of Darnall as it would be very difficult to spend 30 minutes going through it even on a 52. Few would use it as a route to the centre.

 

Nobody has "given" a "probably" or "won't be the case" about London Sheffield journey times being longer on HS2 than on the Victorian times. The thread is at a point were the relative journey times to the centre from the HS2 station being at Victoria or Meadowhall. are being considered.

 

My geography is fine thanks. I was pointing out that HS2 won't really benefit Sheffield. That's a pretty simple concept. You really need to check out where Darnall is.

I said nothing about Victorian times. I said Victorian lines. Perhaps your reading needs brushing up as well as your geography.

[tinfoilhat]

I guess that the snarled up part would be in the city centre part of the journey, so maybe something similar could happen if you were to get a taxi from the existing train station to wherever the meeting was.

 

And that assuming your meeting is in the city centre. There's industry, big names at that, outside of the city centre. Advanced manufacturing research thingy for starters.

 

And flip round the other way, if you travel to London you probably won't be enjoying a five minute walk to your meeting either.

[Annie Bynnol]

My geography is fine thanks. I was pointing out that HS2 won't really benefit Sheffield. That's a pretty simple concept. You really need to check out where Darnall is.

I said nothing about Victorian times. I said Victorian lines. Perhaps your reading needs brushing up as well as your geography.

 

Sheffield Centre (Cathedral) to Meadowhall via Brightside or Attercliffe 3.6 miles.

Sheffield Centre to Meadowhall via Darnall + Parkway 5.6 miles or Staniforth Road 5.3 miles.

 

I do apologise for mixing up "...Victorian times..." with what I ment "..Victorian lines.." but you knew that. It does give me a chance to re emphasise your error of diverting through Darnall for thirty minutes, the error of the non existant route of HS2 to Manchester and in your error of attempting to make a "given" about journey times + travel times to London and Birmingham.

[foxy lady]

Sheffield Centre (Cathedral) to Meadowhall via Brightside or Attercliffe 3.6 miles.

Sheffield Centre to Meadowhall via Darnall + Parkway 5.6 miles or Staniforth Road 5.3 miles.

 

I do apologise for mixing up "...Victorian times..." with what I ment "..Victorian lines.." but you knew that. It does give me a chance to re emphasise your error of diverting through Darnall for thirty minutes, the error of the non existant route of HS2 to Manchester and in your error of attempting to make a "given" about journey times + travel times to London and Birmingham.

 

The HS2 route from Sheffield to Manchester would involve travelling to meadowhall taking the train to Leeds then taking the train to Manchester. As I pointed out it would take longer than using the current Victorian lines. The same applies to getting to the other cities. If they build HS2 it will not benefit Sheffield. It will improve communication between other cities. It will isolate us from the Northern Powerhouse and divert investment away from Sheffield.

It seems that it has occured to many that the journey from London to Leeds would be 10 minutes faster if they didn't stop at Sheffield at all. It would also cut a few billion off the construction cost of HS2.

 

The fastest way from Tinsley to the current station is via the ring road and parkway. I'm sure you can cut a mile off that if you like sitting in traffic jams.

Edited May 17, 2016 by foxy lady

[WalkleyIan]

I guess that the snarled up part would be in the city centre part of the journey, so maybe something similar could happen if you were to get a taxi from the existing train station to wherever the meeting was.

 

More likely to walk, tram or cycle from midland station to the major employers in the city (University, NHS etc) or to the city centre hotels if its a conference.

 

the snarled up part would be getting down the Parkway anyway.

 

---------- Post added 17-05-2016 at 17:22 ----------

 

Well the question of redeveloping the city centre springs to mind.

If you were looking to relocate to Sheffield and it came to making a choice between the city centre or a new development at Meadowhall. You would consider

 

Meadowhall has a high speed rail link to London. It is 2 minutes from the M1 even at rush hour. It is 15 minutes from Robin Hood Airport and you can park as many cars as you care to. Sheffield has traffic wardens and traffic problems. It's not really a tough call.

 

Its also slap bang in the centre of the worst polluted stretch of motorway in the country. Do we really want to encourage more cars vehicles into the area or will we all be driving electric by the time its built?

[Annie Bynnol]

The HS2 route from Sheffield to Manchester would involve travelling to meadowhall taking the train to Leeds then taking the train to Manchester. As I pointed out it would take longer than using the current Victorian lines. The same applies to getting to the other cities. If they build HS2 it will not benefit Sheffield. It will improve communication between other cities. It will isolate us from the Northern Powerhouse and divert investment away from Sheffield.

 

There is no HS2 planned link between Leeds and Manchester and so no point in travelling to Manchester via Leeds.

There is no cost benefit for short HS journeys so the "HS3" idea is a conventional rail link with some new track. This would still take much longer than the Elizabethan line* via Stockport or the Victorian lines through New Mills Central.

 

Sheffield does not need a new railway line to Manchester Piccadilly as unlike Leeds Manchester the intermediate places are much smaller. There are less junctions. There is much less mixed traffic.

Journey times of 40 minutes are easily and relatively cheaply obtained by:

 

Sheffield station remodelling and south junctions and loops (planned)

Sheffield to Dore electrification (planned)

removal of some express traffic between Sheffield and Dore on completion of HS2 eastern leg (planned)

removing the single track sections at Dore (planned) and Hazel Grove.

loop in Edale/Hope Valley (delayed).

a bi directional extra track between Chinley and New Mills (considered)

removing signal boxes that are still operating semaphores (planned)

reconstructing the junction south of Stockport (underway)

removal of some express traffic between Stockport and Manchester on completion of HS2 western leg (planned)

new junctions and platforms at Piccadilly (underway)

re use of Stockport Hazel Grove electrification (underway)

Hazel Grove Dore electrification (considered)

 

The fastest way from Tinsley to the current station is via the ring road and parkway. I'm sure you can cut a mile off that if you like sitting in traffic jams.

 

Surely nobody would drive from HS2 Meadowhall to Sheffield Station (Midland).

If they did, as the station will be at Meadowhall why would a taxi go-

Tinsley roundabout(traffic jams) for Shepcote Lane

or Broughton Lane (traffic jams)

then both via Greenland Road (traffic jams)

Darnall lights (traffic jams)

Prince of Wales Road roundabout (traffic jams)

Parkway (traffic jams)

Park Square roundabout (traffic jams).

 

when they could go via Attercliffe - 2 miles shorter and availability of bus lanes and gates?

 

The alternatives include:

Meadowhall station to Sheffield station about every 10 minutes

Meadowhall Sheffield Hospitals (ex.NGH) and University by BRT-(under construction)

Meadowhall Sheffield, Station and University using Tram

Meadowhall Sheffield and centre using Tram Train

Meadowhall Sheffield using X76

 

*Hazel Grove chord 1986

[WalkleyIan]

And that assuming your meeting is in the city centre. There's industry, big names at that, outside of the city centre. Advanced manufacturing research thingy for starters.

 

And flip round the other way, if you travel to London you probably won't be enjoying a five minute walk to your meeting either.

 

I work at the AMRC now and it currently has terrible transport links if you don't drive. There is the possibility of a bus from meadowhall, or a walk from attercliffe tramstop (3 miles) but I cycle it when Im there all day (surprisingly quick at 35 mins) or take one of the University electric cars if its after rush hour (just 15 mins)

 

Many of the journeys where I work involve staff shuttling back and forth to the city for meetings at the University so it dearly needs some kind of rapid transport system that integrates with the tram routes .

 

If HS2 does end up at Meadowhall the route into the city really needs to pass through the Waverly complex as there are many new developments coming out there (eg factory 2050)

[foxy lady]

There is no HS2 planned link between Leeds and Manchester and so no point in travelling to Manchester via Leeds.

There is no cost benefit for short HS journeys so the "HS3" idea is a conventional rail link with some new track. This would still take much longer than the Elizabethan line* via Stockport or the Victorian lines through New Mills Central.

 

 

I believe that is exactly what I said. HS2 gives no benefit to most Sheffielders over the old Victorian lines travelling to these places. So if I want to go to Manchester I would be better going to Totley and taking the slow train. If I wanted to go to London I'd be better off going to Chesterfield and taking the slow train. If I wanted to go to Birmingham I'd be better off going to Sheffield and taking the slow train. Can you see a pattern emerging here?

Edited May 17, 2016 by foxy lady

[JFKvsNixon]

OK. So no point anyone from Hope Valley using The high speed train then. I'm glad you cleared that one up. So if you rule out all the folk who come into Sheffield by train from Edale, Hope, Grindleford, Dronfield, Dore, Totley, Chesterfield etc. It does seem to limit who is going to benefit from HS2?

 

Why would they drive from HS2 at Meadowhall to the current train station?

[Cyclone]

OK. So no point anyone from Hope Valley using The high speed train then. I'm glad you cleared that one up. So if you rule out all the folk who come into Sheffield by train from Edale, Hope, Grindleford, Dronfield, Dore, Totley, Chesterfield etc. It does seem to limit who is going to benefit from HS2?

 

I don't think I understand your point.

Why would you drive from Meadowhall (if you'd arrived by train) to the current station? Instead of just taking one of the frequent and quick trains that go there...

 

---------- Post added 17-05-2016 at 20:26 ----------

 

So when folk mention that HS2 is supposed to cut journey times that won't be the case in Sheffield unless you are up from London to go shopping at Meadowhall.

 

40 minutes shorter journey time. Maximum of 15 mins from Meadowhall to current train station. That's a minimum 25 minute saving... Probably more in most cases.

 

---------- Post added 17-05-2016 at 20:27 ----------

 

And there we are thinking that the idea of HS2 is to cut journey times from London to Sheffield, not to allow Londoners to spend 30 minutes looking over the beauty spots of Darnall.

 

Londoners are very used to changing trains. So getting off one train at Meadowhall and onto another to the city centre will hardly be a challenge for them...