herbalharry Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There isn't a 'grossly disproportionate' number of Muslim youth turning to extremism. The majority of Muslim youth are just youth, doing youthy things. Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure most rapists probably were brought up to respect women (as I'm sure most murderers were probably brought up not to murder) many Islamic extremists are white converts who weren't brought up in the culture - you just don't have an argument, repeating and rewording it doesn't make it valid. It's not a whataboutism at all, humans are made up of a balance of people, Muslims are made up of a balance of people, some Muslims are bad, so your argument goes we should get rid of Islam, some humans are bad so therefore... you really are a silly man. Everything you said plus 1.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Muslims being radicalised is a problem. It's a problem with extremist groups. Not a problem with Muslims or Islam. ---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 14:17 ---------- Illustrated this is clearly not the case. The problem is Islam because it is Islam and the examples set by Muhammad that the extremists are following. ---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 14:47 ---------- There isn't a 'grossly disproportionate' number of Muslim youth turning to extremism. The majority of Muslim youth are just youth, doing youthy things. Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure most rapists probably were brought up to respect women (as I'm sure most murderers were probably brought up not to murder) many Islamic extremists are white converts who weren't brought up in the culture - you just don't have an argument, repeating and rewording it doesn't make it valid. It's not a whataboutism at all, humans are made up of a balance of people, Muslims are made up of a balance of people, some Muslims are bad, so your argument goes we should get rid of Islam, some humans are bad so therefore... you really are a silly man. Which shows that it is the religion that is the problem, when you convince someone that Muhammad is the best example of humanity and following his examples will please God and lead to paradise, you get ISIS. Edited February 6, 2016 by sutty27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRiders Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The problem is Islam because it is Islam and the examples set by Muhammad that the extremists are following. ---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 14:47 ---------- Which shows that it is the religion that is the problem, when you convince someone that Muhammad is the best example of humanity and following his examples will please God and lead to paradise, you get ISIS. No it doesn't, it shows the people are stupid and if not privy to all the facts and they don't employ critical thinking they'll fall for anything, even violent and/or extremist ideals - as they have throughout history in connection to all religions and none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 No it doesn't, it shows the people are stupid and if not privy to all the facts and they don't employ critical thinking they'll fall for anything, even violent and/or extremist ideals - as they have throughout history in connection to all religions and none. How many Muslims/Christians/religious people will accept that they are stupid for believing in such rubbish. Don't blame the people that have been conditioned to believe the rubbish, blame the architect of the rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbalharry Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The problem is Islam because it is Islam and the examples set by Muhammad that the extremists are following. . If I told you to jump off a bridge would you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRiders Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 How many Muslims/Christians/religious people will accept that they are stupid for believing in such rubbish. Don't blame the people that have been conditioned to believe the rubbish, blame the architect of the rubbish. Not at all, blame the people, it is they who choose to do it, but then it comes down to opinion. Are they stupid? No more than any other human for believing the myriad stupid things that we as a species believe, from it being ok to trophy hunt to liking Justin Beiber, it comes down to personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) If I told you to jump off a bridge would you do it? I wouldn't but then I'm not very susceptible to suggestion, the reality though is that millions of people are susceptible to suggestion. If someone that is susceptible to suggestion, easily hypnotised jumped off the bridge after being told to do so by the hypnotist, would you blame the hypnotist or the person jumping. If a victim defends the action of an abuser do you also defend the actions of the abuser or condemn the abuser? ---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 15:17 ---------- Not at all, blame the people, it is they who choose to do it, but then it comes down to opinion. Are they stupid? No more than any other human for believing the myriad stupid things that we as a species believe, from it being ok to trophy hunt to liking Justin Beiber, it comes down to personal opinion. It isn't stupidity, it is an evolved survival mechanism and is the reason for things like Stockholm Syndrome in which victims can love and defend the abuser or captors. Religion/God in this case is the abuser using threats of violence to encourage submission. Faced by someone promising to do them harm if they didn’t do as they say, most people would at least regard such a person as the enemy. The religious however, embraces this “person” as God. They praise and adore him, and even worship this God who has promised them eternal suffering if they don’t do as he says. They bow their heads in thanks, praising him for giving them a way out of the trap he has set for them. Some expressions of religion bring Stockholm Syndrome to mind. Edited February 6, 2016 by sutty27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRiders Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) It isn't stupidity, it is an evolved survival mechanism and is the reason for things like Stockholm Syndrome in which victims can love and defend the abuser. Religion/God in this case is the abuser using threats of violence to encourage submission. You have a very narrow understanding of religious psychology if you think people are only religious because of the threat of 'eternal hellfire' or other similar things. Edited to account for your own edit - 'some expressions of religion' should not be confused with 'Religion'. Edited February 6, 2016 by GhostRiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 You have a very narrow understanding of religious psychology if you think people are only religious because of the threat of 'eternal hellfire' or other similar things. Edited to account for your own edit - 'some expressions of religion' should not be confused with 'Religion'. They are religious because they have been conditioned to submit to that which threatens them if they don't submit, its an evolved survival mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRiders Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 They are religious because they have been conditioned to submit to that which threatens them if they don't submit, its an evolved survival mechanism. Most people who are religious are not religious because they are afraid of not living forever or being sent to hellfire and damnation, that's an extremely narrow and naïve view of the reasons behind religiosity (and in regards to some Eastern religions doesn't even make sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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