Politics and Other Views

[Anna B]

 

Liberals are so daft.

 

They must have been to get into bed with the Tories, who, as expected, shafted them as soon as they didn't need them any more.

 

---------- Post added 24-12-2015 at 00:35 ----------

 

The Conservatives do anything to stay in power, and are in it to make their mates richer.

I am not totally anti-Tory tho, even the BNP had some good ideas. Anyone that is anti one party, is blinkered.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2015 at 23:47 ----------

 

[/color]

 

Its all just pure capitalism, New Labour and Conservative. There needs to be some socialism in there, to stop people being exploited(bankers and drug addicts) and harming society.

 

I agree. And these particular Tories are the worst capitalists yet. They've turned croneyism into an art form.

[unbeliever]

Yes I do blame the banks. And remind me who deregulated the banks in the first place and made it a free for all...

 

Gordon Brown did.

Do you know anything about this at all?

 

The last Labour government knocked down the previous banking regulation system and built a new one almost from scratch. You'll have a hell of a time blaming the conservatives for this one.

 

I don't want to derail this thread, but you're on to a loser here. Trying to blame a government that left office in 1997 for a banking crisis in 2008 is so profoundly ridiculous that it doesn't really need countering.

 

---------- Post added 24-12-2015 at 07:47 ----------

 

I agree. And these particular Tories are the worst capitalists yet. They've turned croneyism into an art form.

 

Absolute rubbish.

You've got highly progressive taxation, tax cuts focused heavily on the working poor, the preservation of huge benefits and historically high public spending.

There's plenty of socialism in the system.

Edited December 24, 2015 by unbeliever

[JFKvsNixon]

Go on. Seeing as it's you, I'll bite.

 

Lefties are often Anti:

Business

Wealth

Cars

Tradition

Royal family

Hunting/shooting/fishing

Guns

Landlords

Meat

I could...

....go on

 

Although you'll probably disagree, I'm not a lefty; but I'm certainly a liberal so it's my turn to bite:

 

Business - Nope, my wife owns and runs her own business.

Wealth - Nope, I certainly aspire for all the things that greater wealth would bring.

Cars - Nope, I really do appreciate the engineering behind a marquis car and I am I used to be a regular watcher of Top Gear whilst turning green with envy.

Tradition - I'd like to think that I'm a student of history and as such I cherish our traditions.

Royal family - See above

Hunting/shooting/fishing - Ok you got me on this one, but I admit as a meat eater I'm a hypocrite.

Guns - I wouldn't say I'm anti-guns, I'm just anti-lets have the access to guns made into a right; which is the Americans approach. I think that how we handle firearms in our country offers the right amount of balance.

Landlords - Nope, when I was a student and afterwards until I purchased my first house I had some fine landlords, and appreciated how their good service improved the quality of my life.

Meat - Nope, you cannot beat a nice rare steak.

Edited December 24, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Anna B]

Gordon Brown did.

Do you know anything about this at all?

 

The last Labour government knocked down the previous banking regulation system and built a new one almost from scratch. You'll have a hell of a time blaming the conservatives for this one.

 

I don't want to derail this thread, but you're on to a loser here. Trying to blame a government that left office in 1997 for a banking crisis in 2008 is so profoundly ridiculous that it doesn't really need countering.

 

---------- Post added 24-12-2015 at 07:47 ----------

 

 

Absolute rubbish.

You've got highly progressive taxation, tax cuts focused heavily on the working poor, the preservation of huge benefits and historically high public spending.

There's plenty of socialism in the system.

 

 

We've also got 2,800 people living rough on the streets. A 55% increase since 2010. Average age of death; 47 (BBC 10 O'clock news 23rd December 2015) Not to mention sofa-surfers and hostel dwellers.

 

The bank thing has been discussed at length on here complete with links, charts and statistics. Please check earlier threads. It's not just my opinion, but the opinion of financial experts far more qualified than me. We may not agree, and never will, but it certainly isn't 'profoundly ridiculous.'

 

You want to stop buying into all the Tory hype, (although it is the only thing they're good at.)

Edited December 24, 2015 by Anna B

[El Cid]

The last Labour government knocked down the previous banking regulation system and built a new one almost from scratch. You'll have a hell of a time blaming the conservatives for this one.

 

 

At least some really bad laws get kicked out in the House of Lords, at least they do now we have Jeremy Corbyn as the opposition leader.

 

Why didnt the Tories oppose banking reform in Westminster ,,,,, oh I forgot, they wanted even more freedom for the banks.

At least the Lords wont be stopping anymore bad reforms, once Cameron has reformed the Lords

[MickyA]

And why should we concern ourselves with the opinions as to who should be in government, of those too stupid, ignorant or idle to put a cross in a box once every 5 years?

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2015 at 07:43 ----------

 

 

I don't have a problem with any of the things in your list, but the chance of me voting for anybody other than UKIP or the Conservatives in the foreseeable future is very close to zero.

 

I'm extremely distrustful of the modern green movement. I'm quite convinced of the validity of the CO2 global warming effect but wholly unconvinced of the catastrophic anthropogenic global warming hypothesis (or climate change). I hate alternative energy with a passion as it drives up energy prices, impoverishing the nation as a whole and hitting hardest those who can least afford it. I'm a big supported of "fracking". More importantly I wholeheartedly support research into genuine alternatives which in my view consist primarily of nuclear power of various kinds and better batteries.

The aggressive mandate from international technocrats of various kinds to cut CO2 output extremely quickly forces us to use technology that on balance is complete rubbish and will be seen by future generations as one of history's great follies.

 

I think we need to urgently withdraw from the EU. Once this is done, we should have a Canadian style immigration system which treats people from all parts of the world equally and fairly.

 

Islam is highly prescriptive on the nature and rules of the state in a way that most religions are not. In principle it is wholly incompatible with secular democracy. That doesn't really matter when dealing with most western Muslims as far as I can tell because they accept that the prescription for government in the Quran is from a different era and cannot be applied directly to the modern world. However in the world as a whole, there are a very great many puritanical muslims who don't see this.

Christianity has been through this process in the west and to an extent in the wider world. It's still going on after hundreds of years. We need to be patient with Islam which is a little behind. Unfortunately this sometimes means stopping the puritanical Muslims with force when they use force to try and reverse the process.

It would have been far better if the god of Abraham had never been thought up, but that ship has sailed. It will likely be centuries before this most destructive of deities falls out of fashion.

 

I have zero problem with cyclists. Public transport has its place, but that place is rapidly shrinking.

 

The big domestic issue for me is redistribution. It is highly counter-productive for the benefits system to provide perverse incentives. Such incentives include avoiding work, taking on minimal paying work at minimal hours to qualify for tax credits when one is capable of better, having children one can't independently support.

The current government approach of offering maximum opportunity for training, cautiously forcing up wages, minimising the tax burden on the working poor and withdrawing benefits from those who are not earnestly seeking work has my strong support. Although there are some serious flaws in places with its implementation which need to be addressed with great urgency.

I know a lot of people get very upset when well intentioned innocent people are hurt by these things. I would remind you that people are being hurt all the time as a result of money being taken from those who earned it and handed out to people who play the system. That money is then not available for providing public services and benefits for those who are truly deserving.

 

Heavy direct redistribution is an admission of failure. We've failed to train lots of people to support themselves and therefore consigned them to a dependent sub-class. It's in everybody's best interests to keep that to an absolute minimum.

Redistribution damages real growth. Real growth comes from private sector businesses employing people in the UK to supply things that have true value in the international market. Other kinds of "growth" are an illusion. It's necessary to protect the least amongst us, but it should be done with great care.

When you tax the productive part of your population to support the unproductive part, you damage your economy and make the next generation poorer.

 

A great post there unbeliever and I agree with what you said wholeheartedly.

 

For me the Labour movement is so out of touch and are a million miles away from representing the views of me and a large majority of the average person out there. Their followers, especially the younger ones, seem to be so blinkered and should anyone dare to air any views even slightly different to their own then they are deemed to be right wing, uneducated, stupid or a mixture of the three (as is often witnessed on here)

 

They seem to be anti everything and that's just part of being young and dumb, but what about alternatives! Labour under Corbyn is now simply a protest party and I'm still waiting to hear good workable alternatives.

[El Cid]

And why should we concern ourselves with the opinions as to who should be in government, of those too stupid, ignorant or idle to put a cross in a box once every 5 years?

 

Their followers, especially the younger ones, seem to be so blinkered and should anyone dare to air any views even slightly different to their own then they are deemed to be right wing, uneducated, stupid or a mixture of the three (as is often witnessed on here)

 

Its not just the left wingers that think some voters are stupid

[unbeliever]

At least some really bad laws get kicked out in the House of Lords, at least they do now we have Jeremy Corbyn as the opposition leader.

 

Why didnt the Tories oppose banking reform in Westminster ,,,,, oh I forgot, they wanted even more freedom for the banks.

At least the Lords wont be stopping anymore bad reforms, once Cameron has reformed the Lords

 

 

This trick of reducing the matter of banking regulation to a matter of sheer quantity is crude and pathetic. You didn't start it so I don't blame you.

 

The Conservatives called for a broad range of industrial deregulation. They did and still do think that overregulation is bad.

The specifically called for an increase in amount of capital that banks were required to hold in order to prevent them getting into trouble. It's all there in black and white. I've posted the links before.

[Alan Ladd]

Regretably it appears that we of a Conservative leaning are debating with closed minds.

 

May I repeat that no one owns my vote, nor should any party or individual own anyone elses.

 

The fact is that since the Labour meltdown after Blair resigned, the Tories are the only party capable of governing the country. Their record, in the coalition and since has been exemplary. Solid economic policies, A refusal to kowtow to either Europe or the US and acting in the national interest at all times.

 

This being the case, they have my loyalty and will retain it until they run out of steam which they inevitably will, I predict this will be in 2025 if the Labour party sort itself out or, more probably their is a re alignment of the left.

 

The one thing I would love to change is this pathetic class war emanating from the Labour party and its supporters. It is entirely negative, gets us precisely nowhere and seems to be based on nothing more than the fact that a high number of the Conservative ministers went to Public schools and are "posh".

 

I went to a local secondary modern, left at 15 with no qualifications and worked in heavy industry most of my working life. Not a typical Tory? Actually yes I am, typical Tories, work hard, are self sufficient, generous to thise who genuinely try, impatient with those who bleat.

 

Vote for what works, at this time and for the foreseeable future its the Tories.

[El Cid]

 

The one thing I would love to change is this pathetic class war emanating from the Labour party and its supporters.

 

Is it based on class?

 

It is a war between right and left, that is what you get with a two party system.