'Smart' Motorways.

[JFKvsNixon]

There are plenty of busy dual carriageway A roads with 2/3 lanes that don't have a hard shoulder and I can't ever remember there being a problem with broken down cars causing accidents.

[Solution]

There are plenty of busy dual carriageway A roads with 2/3 lanes that don't have a hard shoulder and I can't ever remember there being a problem with broken down cars causing accidents.

 

And the same speed limits of 70mph too!!

[Longcol]

A quick google and cursory search reveals a few recent examples of collisions with broken down vehicles on M'ways / A roads.

 

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/m1-collision-in-northamptonshire-was-caused-by-broken-down-vehicle-in-a-section-with-no-hard-shoulder-1-6749775

 

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Car-collision-broken-lorry-causing-rush-hour/story-28339277-detail/story.html

 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/solihull-birmingham-airport-crash-escape-9461949

 

And a woman killed walking from her broken down car on A road (3 lanes) in Wales.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-11-06/woman-killed-as-she-walked-away-from-broken-down-car/

[JFKvsNixon]

A quick google and cursory search reveals a few recent examples of collisions with broken down vehicles on M'ways / A roads.

 

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/m1-collision-in-northamptonshire-was-caused-by-broken-down-vehicle-in-a-section-with-no-hard-shoulder-1-6749775

 

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Car-collision-broken-lorry-causing-rush-hour/story-28339277-detail/story.html

 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/solihull-birmingham-airport-crash-escape-9461949

 

And a woman killed walking from her broken down car on A road (3 lanes) in Wales.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-11-06/woman-killed-as-she-walked-away-from-broken-down-car/

 

 

 

All them are awful accidents, but I don't think that it has ever been considered such a problem to the extent that dual-carriageway A roads are considered to be unsafe though.

[tinfoilhat]

Most of the signage isn't the over the road gantry type signs, most of it is just the messaging type signs that normally say things like 'M1 Jct 6-7 closed' or 'Surface water - slow down'. Justin's point is that those signs are nowhere near as clear as the ones like you say that go over the lane and have a red cross. Only a total muppet wouldn't be able to follow those.

 

The stretch of the m25 I was on today had a the little signs rather than the gantries going over the entire motorway and no hard shoulder. At one point a lane was closed for a breakdown - nobody died.

 

If you have a travel app (I use the rac one) you can get an idea of how often breakdowns occur. I couldn't tell you if that part of the m25 is any more dangerous than the bits with hard shoulders.

[biotechpete]

There are better ways to manage speeds on motorways and main roads through monitoring. Opening more lanes makes congestion worse and compacts more vehicles into the same time and space.

Predictive congestion analysis to set speed limits well in advance can slow traffic down before it gets into a serious build up and keep traffic inertia and pollution to a minimum.

Roads with traffic lights ahead should have dynamic electronic speed limits so drivers can adjust their speed to continue without having to stop on red. This would take some time to set up to allow for different times and local circumstances like factories turning out.

 

The report I read said specifically, that the South Yorkshire section won't use automatic congestion analysis. It is not/ will not be monitored in that way as far as I can tell. That appears to be part of the cost saving.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 21:19 ----------

 

The stretch of the m25 I was on today had a the little signs rather than the gantries going over the entire motorway and no hard shoulder. At one point a lane was closed for a breakdown - nobody died.

 

If you have a travel app (I use the rac one) you can get an idea of how often breakdowns occur. I couldn't tell you if that part of the m25 is any more dangerous than the bits with hard shoulders.

 

There's a part of the M60 near Stockport which has no hard shoulder. This area between portwood and the pyramid is notorious for accidents and delays.

[Justin Smith]

What is the problem with the M1? Used it for the first time in ages last Friday, and it was great. I've always believed all the accidents happen in the outside lanes, because that's where I've usually seen them. The problem is not with the Motorway, its the incapable idiots that use them. 1 in 5 drivers admits to using social media whilst driving. That's 20% of everyone on the road. And you're worried about an extra lane????

 

It`s not the just the accidents (though I`ve seen plenty on the inside lane myself) it`s the broken down cars. I want somewhere to go where I`m not having cars swerving out of the way to miss me at 60 to 80mph.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 21:37 ----------

 

There are plenty of busy dual carriageway A roads with 2/3 lanes that don't have a hard shoulder and I can't ever remember there being a problem with broken down cars causing accidents.

 

Are you saying non hard shoulder dual carriageways are as safe as motorways with hard shoulders ? That sounds unlikely to me. But, one has to ask, if you`re implying that hard shoulders have no use, why have all motorways (until very recently) had them ?

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 21:46 ----------

 

What is the problem with the M1? Used it for the first time in ages last Friday, and it was great. I've always believed all the accidents happen in the outside lanes, because that's where I've usually seen them. The problem is not with the Motorway, its the incapable idiots that use them. 1 in 5 drivers admits to using social media whilst driving. That's 20% of everyone on the road. And you're worried about an extra lane????

 

That`s not really saying anything though is it ! In fact that`s exactly what the American gun lobby say about guns : "guns don`t kill anyone" ! ! Technically they`re correct, but it`s b******s isn`t it.

Having said the above, if a car breaks down, it`s not usually the drivers fault is it ? What is he supposed to do ? He (or she) has no where to go. The point could be made that if people kept adequate distance from the vehicle in front *, kept up their concentration and didn`t speed, then accidents would be less likely with vehicles stopped on the inside lane. But still more likely than if there was a hard shoulder in place.

 

* The facts : required 2 second gap at 70mph = 63 m. But this is front and rear, i.e. the gap between two vehicles must be at least 126m plus the length of your own vehicle (say + 5m = 131m) before you move into it (if changing lanes) even if all three vehicles are doing exactly the same speed. But when these facts were stated, on a different thread, more than one poster said they thought the gaps "excessive".

Edited January 4, 2016 by Justin Smith

[RonJeremy]

It`s not the just the accidents (though I`ve seen plenty on the inside lane myself) it`s the broken down cars. I want somewhere to go where I`m not having cars swerving out of the way to miss me at 60 to 80mph.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 21:37 ----------

 

 

Are you saying non hard shoulder dual carriageways are as safe as motorways with hard shoulders ? That sounds unlikely to me. But, one has to ask, if you`re implying that hard shoulders have no use, why have all motorways (until very recently) had them ?

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 21:46 ----------

 

 

That`s not really saying anything though is it ! In fact that`s exactly what the American gun lobby say about guns : "guns don`t kill anyone" ! ! Technically they`re correct, but it`s b******s isn`t it.

Having said the above, if a car breaks down, it`s not usually the drivers fault is it ? What is he supposed to do ? He (or she) has no where to go.

 

What about GERMAN guns? Are they much more dangerous than non-german guns?

[JFKvsNixon]

Are you saying non hard shoulder dual carriageways are as safe as motorways with hard shoulders ? That sounds unlikely to me. But, one has to ask, if you`re implying that hard shoulders have no use, why have all motorways (until very recently) had them ?

 

So have you ever had any issues with driving on dual-carriageway A roads?

[Justin Smith]

What about GERMAN guns? Are they much more dangerous than non-german guns?

 

Are we talking WWII ? ! ?

 

On water : The Royal Navy`s guns were far more dangerous than those of the German`s rather small navy.

 

On land : For most of the war German tank guns were more dangerous than British (or American tank) guns. Things changed with the 17 pounder, as fitted in the Sherman Firefly.

 

In the air : During the Battle of Britain German guns (in their fighters) were rather more dangerous than the small calibre weapons fitted in the RAF Hurricanes and Spitfires. Things changed later, parity was achieved.