Yorkshire Jihadi in the latest IS snuff movie?

[Quik]

Then that changes the game slightly and in that case perhaps we should do that for people who join ISIS. What would happen to someone who was made stateless though? Could they end up stuck 'air side'?

 

I presume they would not be allowed to board in the first place as their passport would be cancelled. Though there was an iranian chap who was stuck in CDG airside for about 15 years.

[sgtkate]

And if Iraqi/Syrian forces capture them, and don't want the bother of dealing with them, where do they deport them to?

 

I've suggested a UN court and prison for people in this situation. If they are found not guilty then the last country to remove their citizenship must reinstate them.

 

The same question could be said back to the Saudis. What if someone they revoke citizenship from ends up committing a crime in the UK? We now can't deport them either. The rules have to work for all countries in the world, not just the ones we like.

[JFKvsNixon]

I've suggested a UN court and prison for people in this situation. If they are found not guilty then the last country to remove their citizenship must reinstate them.

 

The same question could be said back to the Saudis. What if someone they revoke citizenship from ends up committing a crime in the UK? We now can't deport them either. The rules have to work for all countries in the world, not just the ones we like.

 

My fear is that if make our most undesirable people stateless, they'll end up in some lawless country and evading justice.

[sgtkate]

My fear is that if make our most undesirable people stateless, they'll end up in some lawless country and evading justice.

 

Yes possibly. But who's justice? All countries in the world have different laws and sentencing. Trying to make out that only UK courts can issue justice is pretty patronising. Being stopped living in your chosen country would probably be fairly strong justice wouldn't it? Being denied a safe, free, open country to live in and instead being forced to take your chances in a likely dangerous, controlled and undemocratic country instead could be a huge deterrent and punishment for people who make that choice.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 15:57 ----------

 

I'm half playing devil's advocate here and i'm really not sure what my own position is on this. Part of me thinks if you go a join ISIS then quite frankly you can sod off and rot, the other part of me would like to see them in court for their crimes. The 2 views don't really align. Also there is a strong chance of converting young children back away from ISIS if we allow them back into the UK and they'd be some serious propaganda against ISIS, but then we run the risk of them remaining loyal to ISIS and doing us damage later on. Simply put, there just isn't a right answer...

[L00b]

The problem with withdrawing a nationality is not so much that it most likely wouldn't be any kind of deterrent to those ready and willing to join ISIS/perform terror acts, as the legal precedent and framework it sets for the State to then gradually (or suddenly, for that matter) shift what is and isn't criteria enough to withdraw it.

 

You know...today's peaceful dissenters being tomorrow's stateless terrorists, as public opinion is manipulated swings on the moment.

 

It's a currently-growing hot topic amongst dual nationals with one French nationality, after Hollande and Valls' latest rhetoric about it last week. For context: not that Marine LePen is ever going to become French Présidente...but the FN has always said it would abolish dual nationality and force dual nationals into a choice if it ever came to power. Bringing in that kind of legislation would give them fertile and relatively easy-going ground on which to push their political aims, and I expect the same is true here, given enough political momentum.

Edited January 4, 2016 by L00b

[Gamston]

Do we really want to use Saudi Arabia as a justification for losing our moral compass?

How is removing British citizenship from terrorists who ar an enemy of Britain losing our moral compass ?

[Nagel]

It's not really that important if the latest jihadi superstar is from London or Yorkshire is it?

 

It's a little known story, but in Sheffield we can still lay claim to one of the earliest Islamic terrorist cells in Europe. In 2000, a full year before 9/11.

 

The flat is the one above the DIY shop on Abbeydale Road

 

Christmas shoppers were the target for a massive blast planned by bin Laden's terror network. Drug deals paid for the operation. But a single error alerted MI5

 

It looked like any nondescript flat in any busy British shopping street. At morning rush hour last week hundreds of cars passed underneath its dirty windows on their way to and from Sheffield city centre. Complete with sagging roof and grimy stairway, the flat was above a DIY shop and near a bus stop.

 

Scores of children queued for their school bus outside its door. They gossiped, bickered, laughed and fought - just as children do every day. It was a slice of ordinary life.

 

But what went on in this flat was far from ordinary. From here Islamic terrorists plotted to kill and maim the innocent as they shopped in Strasbourg's famed Christmas Market. The Observer can today reveal the astonishing story of a terrorist network that stretched from Sheffield to Frankfurt to Strasbourg and came within a whisker of causing the deaths of dozens of innocent people.

 

The attack, investigators believe, was planned, funded and led from Britain. The revelation throws new light on the role Britain has played as a safe haven for Europe's extremists, using it as a supply base and fund-raising source while they plotted to bring mayhem to the Continent. Three of the five men on trial in Germany last week spent time in Britain before the attacks.

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes possibly. But who's justice? All countries in the world have different laws and sentencing. Trying to make out that only UK courts can issue justice is pretty patronising. Being stopped living in your chosen country would probably be fairly strong justice wouldn't it? Being denied a safe, free, open country to live in and instead being forced to take your chances in a likely dangerous, controlled and undemocratic country instead could be a huge deterrent and punishment for people who make that choice.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 15:57 ----------

 

I'm half playing devil's advocate here and i'm really not sure what my own position is on this. Part of me thinks if you go a join ISIS then quite frankly you can sod off and rot, the other part of me would like to see them in court for their crimes. The 2 views don't really align. Also there is a strong chance of converting young children back away from ISIS if we allow them back into the UK and they'd be some serious propaganda against ISIS, but then we run the risk of them remaining loyal to ISIS and doing us damage later on. Simply put, there just isn't a right answer...

 

I never suggested that only UK courts can issue justice, so you're running up a blind alley with that one. My point was that there are plenty of countries where if you're rich or powerful the laws do seem to be "an optional extra". So it isn't beyond the realms of imagination to think of a scenario where someone who has been made stateless ends up evading justice by bribing/scheming their way into one of these countries.

 

Another thing that needs to be remembered is that currently ISIS isn't a bonafide country. They're occupying parts of other countries, so what would we do with these stateless UK nationals when ISIS territory is retaken. The Syrians and the Iraqis certainly won't want them to remain in their country.

[Quik]

I never suggested that only UK courts can issue justice, so you're running up a blind alley with that one. My point was that there are plenty of countries where if you're rich or powerful the laws do seem to be "an optional extra". So it isn't beyond the realms of imagination to think of a scenario where someone who has been made stateless ends up evading justice by bribing/scheming their way into one of these countries.

 

Another thing that needs to be remembered is that currently ISIS isn't a bonafide country. They're occupying parts of other countries, so what would we do with these stateless UK nationals when ISIS territory is retaken. The Syrians and the Iraqis certainly won't want them to remain in their country.

 

As far as I've seen in the rare occaisions they are captured IS fighters are executed in the field. This seems to be standard for the Iraqis and the peshmerga and syrian rebels, I'm not aware of any IS captured by syrian government forces but I expect they will do the same.

[999tigger]

Having now heard his voice I'd agree with my friend's report. It sounds more like somebody from Rotherham or Bradford using their telephone voice than somebody from the south east.

 

The terrorist's speech is on Youtube. He sounds both regional and working class to me. You can decide for yourselves.

 

Your friend seems to be uncannily close. Seems they are going on that hunch its Walthamstow just south of Rotherham.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35228558