Is Corbyn a far left politician?

[foxy lady]

This is all very vague and wooly.

Reminds me of the kind of unenforceable nonsense that most new party leaders come out with.

 

What laws would he pass to make these ideas stick?

 

What changes would he and the shadow Chancellor make to the tax system? I'm especially interested in the personal income tax allowance, the rates and thresholds of income tax overall and the VAT rate. If there are any planned changes to NI, that would be important too.

 

 

I also think you underestimate the value of voting for a minor party.

Are there no parties out there which are in line with your views?

 

I'm more interested in how Labour would pay for it all. It isn't something they seem to want to shout about.

[unbeliever]

I'm more interested in how Labour would pay for it all. It isn't something they seem to want to shout about.

 

Me too.

Which is why I asked specifically about changes to direct taxation.

[Mister M]

My point was Blair was electable. Corbyn isn't. That's why I put Blair was electable. A few years before we had Michael Foot. He was more aking to Corbyn, and he was unelectable too. It would be around 40 years ago that Labour had a leader even approaching Corbyn who was electable. But that was then. Times have changed.

 

Indeed times have changed. But times have changed since Blair became PM in 1997. Modernisers in the LP, like Mandelson, refuse to acknowledge this.

This article by Chris Dillow, makes some very prescient points relevant to this discussion about how the technocrats like Blair and Mandelson can't see anything beyond electability.

 

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2016/01/whats-the-point-of-labours-right.html

 

Unfortunately those technocrats who hung on to Mandelson & Blair's coat tails (such as Geoff Hoon, Steve Byers, Patricia Hewitt et. al) aren't even very good at managerialism, they spout managerialist guff about 'triangulation', forgetting that:

a) They lack the capability (on evidence of their stint in Ministerial posts).

b) The electorate, and the political class can see through cynical strategies like triangulation.

I don't believe Corbyn to be a far left politician. But if he is, at least he's different from the Tories, which is good for democracy as their is a choice for the electorate.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Mister M

[JFKvsNixon]

Indeed times have changed. But times have changed since Blair became PM in 1997. Modernisers in the LP, like Mandelson, refuse to acknowledge this.

This article by Chris Dillow, makes some very prescient points relevant to this discussion about how the technocrats like Blair and Mandelson can't see anything beyond electability.

 

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2016/01/whats-the-point-of-labours-right.html

 

Unfortunately those technocrats who hung on to Mandelson & Blair's coat tails (such as Geoff Hoon, Steve Byers, Patricia Hewitt et. al) aren't even very good at managerialism, they spout managerialist guff about 'triangulation', forgetting that:

a) They lack the capability (on evidence of their stint in Ministerial posts).

b) The electorate, and the political class can see through cynical strategies like triangulation.

I don't believe Corbyn to be a far left politician. But if he is, at least he's different from the Tories, which is good for democracy as their is a choice for the electorate.

 

The article you linked to fails to mention why the right of Labour was so disorganised and lacking in direction, which was the civil war between the Blairites and the Brownites. They've spent the last 10 years fighting each other rather than moving their political ideas forward.

 

It's this civil war that cost Labour the last two elections and produced Corbyn.

[Eric Arthur]

Corbyn emphatically opposed it.

http://jeremycorbyn.org.uk/articles/report-from-jeremy-corbyn-mp-20112013-220114/

Well I never. In Corbyn's own words in his own website.

The Transparency of Lobbying, Non Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill, or better named “Gagging Bill” makes its unwelcome return to the Commons and I remain resolutely against it – we need the right of expression in a free democratic society.

 

So much for Corbyn wanting a new kind of politics.

[Anna B]

This is all very vague and wooly.

Reminds me of the kind of unenforceable nonsense that most new party leaders come out with.

 

What laws would he pass to make these ideas stick?

 

What changes would he and the shadow Chancellor make to the tax system? I'm especially interested in the personal income tax allowance, the rates and thresholds of income tax overall and the VAT rate. If there are any planned changes to NI, that would be important too.

 

 

I also think you underestimate the value of voting for a minor party.

Are there no parties out there which are in line with your views?

 

Give him a chance. He's only been leader for 3 months, and he has an almost Herculean task before him, including battling the press and winning his own back benchers round to a whole new way of doing things. And when you are consulting widely, as he does, these things take time.

 

Minor parties? Well the Greens have some things in common, but can you see them ever being in a position of power? Look at the rise and fall of UKIP and the Lib Dems. Politics has been in turmoil ever since the crash, with people looking for something better. Corbyn is trying to fill that gap. He's more inclined towards coalition politics than anything and willing to take things on board from all parties including the smaller ones.

 

Tories don't do this. They think they have an undiminished, God-given entitlement to rule the plebs, (The ruling class don'tyeknow,) and an arrogant attitude of 'We know best.' Always have, Always will. They have rigged the system so that only their own kind will lead the main parties, be that Labour or Conservative.

And of course the party must follow the leader, and stuff what the public want.

 

It's the whole old boy network vs the rest; this is what Corbyn is up against. He doesn't know the right people. Neither does he deal in soundbites. Politics is complicated and shouldn't be summed up in half a dozen words, even if it is convenient for headline writers. He cannot get his message across via a hostile media. Nor will he fight fire with fire, which puts him at a huge disadvantage when up against a glib sleazeball like Cameron. Corbyn is a decent man in a dirty world, trying to change things, which, for their own self-serving reasons, 'they' don't want changed.

 

It'll be almost impossible but he has 4 years to do it. It cannot be rushed. He is not media savvy. If he makes a mistake (which he undoubtedly will from time to time) it will be blown up out of all proportion and he will be pilloried for it. Quiet strength and careful thoughtfulness will be exploited as weakness, as will listening to the viewpoints of others.

 

Will he be able to do it? Who knows? But I for one hope he does.

[unbeliever]

Give him a chance. He's only been leader for 3 months, and he has an almost Herculean task before him, including battling the press and winning his own back benchers round to a whole new way of doing things. And when you are consulting widely, as he does, these things take time.

 

Minor parties? Well the Greens have some things in common, but can you see them ever being in a position of power? Look at the rise and fall of UKIP and the Lib Dems. Politics has been in turmoil ever since the crash, with people looking for something better. Corbyn is trying to fill that gap. He's more inclined towards coalition politics than anything and willing to take things on board from all parties including the smaller ones.

 

Tories don't do this. They think they have an undiminished, God-given entitlement to rule the plebs, (The ruling class don'tyeknow,) and an arrogant attitude of 'We know best.' Always have, Always will. They have rigged the system so that only their own kind will lead the main parties, be that Labour or Conservative.

And of course the party must follow the leader, and stuff what the public want.

 

It's the whole old boy network vs the rest; this is what Corbyn is up against. He doesn't know the right people. Neither does he deal in soundbites. Politics is complicated and shouldn't be summed up in half a dozen words, even if it is convenient for headline writers. He cannot get his message across in a hostile media. Nor will he fight fire with fire, which puts him at a huge disadvantage when up against a glib sleazeball like Cameron. Corbyn is a decent man in a dirty world, trying to change things, which, for their own self-serving reasons, 'they' don't want changed.

 

It'll be almost impossible but he has 4 years to do it. It cannot be rushed. He is not media savvy. If he makes a mistake (which he undoubtedly will from time to time) it will be blown up out of all proportion and he will be pilloried for it. Quiet strength and careful thoughtfulness will be exploited as weakness, as will listening to the viewpoints of others.

 

Will he be able to do it? Who knows? But I for one hope he does.

 

He'd have an easier time with all this stuff if he would outline his plans.

 

I'm not expecting him to write the manifesto right now, but he wants to spend a lot of money. I would like an inkling of where it is to come from.

 

The Greens have an MP, and every vote gains them influence.

I can't stand them myself, but I've voted for candidates who I didn't expect to win before and will again. I encourage you to do the same.

 

I couldn't agree less with your characterisation of the Conservatives by the way.

Politics is more about the best way to make things better for people, not whether or not to do so.

It was the blatantly false assertion that their political opponents don't want to make things better that drove me away from Labour and similar politics and it's mainly what keeps me away.

Edited January 10, 2016 by unbeliever

[I1L2T3]

You really need to do better than offering a poll by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament on nuclear disarmament to avoid looking stupid. Just a suggestion.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/trident-poll-scots-more-keen-on-axe-than-ruk-1-3671168

 

ONLY a quarter of people in Britain think the UK should scrap its nuclear weapons compared with nearly half in Scotland, a poll has suggested.

 

The divide in opinion on nuclear weapons on either side of the border is evidenced in a YouGov poll for the Times, where 56 per cent of UK respondents want to replace Trident compared with 42 per cent in Scotland.

 

The link I provided is to a page on the CND site that lists a number of polls, including one from the Daily Mail.

 

Read it again

 

---------- Post added 10-01-2016 at 18:22 ----------

 

He'd have an easier time with all this stuff if he would outline his plans.

 

I'm not expecting him to write the manifesto right now, but he wants to spend a lot of money. I would like an inkling of where it is to come from.

 

The Greens have an MP, and every vote gains them influence.

I can't stand them myself, but I've voted for candidates who I didn't expect to win before and will again. I encourage you to do the same.

 

Yet nobody seems to want to ask where Osborne's magic money tree is. He's spending like its going out of fashion. No chancellor has ever spent or borrowed more.

[Anna B]

He'd have an easier time with all this stuff if he would outline his plans.

 

I'm not expecting him to write the manifesto right now, but he wants to spend a lot of money. I would like an inkling of where it is to come from.

 

The Greens have an MP, and every vote gains them influence.

I can't stand them myself, but I've voted for candidates who I didn't expect to win before and will again. I encourage you to do the same.

 

I have also voted for no-hopers. It doesn't matter how many votes they get, (UKIP's 4,000,000,) under the present system, if they don't get a seat in parliament, they will have no influence whatsoever, and your vote will be wasted.

[I1L2T3]

I'm not bothered whether you support Labour or something darker. In the scheme of things what you claim or what you pretend doesn't matter. But it is amusing to hear a local Labour MP openly critical of his leader and his communist ideals. What are the voters of Barnsley to make of it all? :hihi:

 

By the way. It's not just one Labour MP that doesn't agree with him. It seems to be most of them.

Come on have a laugh. After all you aren't a labour supporter are you?

 

Nope, I'm not a Labour supporter. And if you think I support something 'darker', well I have to tell you I don't vote Tory either